[WoIaF Spoilers] Oily Stone: Yeen, Asshai, The Wall, 5 Forts, Hinges of the World

[History of Westeros]

Well firstly it's a paraphrase of what he said. So that makes it tricky. But yeah I would assume that when he says there is no history/precedent he's not saying it definitely never happened, just that people in universe have no record of it happening.

I was there for that reading. He said there were similarities between warg bond and dragon rider bond but they were ultimately very different.

iirc he also pointed out that dragons are magical beasts and none of the normal animals that skinchangers can bond with are. It felt like the idea was pretty well shot down, but maybe not completely.

[History of Westeros]

I agree that it has no real world equalivent (I want to call it seastone :P)

Here I made a map where this oily black stone is seen. >Here<

Actually, I'm not sure if Asshai stone is same with the seastone. None of the other buildings seems to drink light. Well...it's greasy and black like Seastone Chair but I don't know.

Nice! I looked at it via the world map but it's so much easier having the dots and lines. Perhaps the stones were placed over time east to west or vice versa, but that seems less likely. (fyi you have the Seastone chair in Blacktyde instead of Pyke).

I do have to agree with others who are saying we probably shouldn't include the Five Forts this way.

[irishking44]

I wonder if the stone could be a type of radioactive material, some sort of very dense and heavy material which would explain it's light absorbency and weight and if these stones are radioactive it could explain why everything around Yeen dies and why the wildlife around Asshai seems mutated and why there are no children there since the radiation sterilizes the population. I think it would also explain the illness of Tyrion's slave master (I forget his name) as a form of radiation poisoning or cancer caused by radiation from visiting Sothyros. Also the Long night could have been a form of nuclear winter caused by this supposed first race that used these stones to build with after accidentally inducing a nuclear reaction. If the stones are present in the Thousand Isles as well, the radiation could explain the hairlessness of the natives. Uranium would fit the description quite well

Just my thoughts

[Equilibrium]

Hum it;s OK theory but I suspect a lot of more Ironborn kings would die from butt cancer if it was true :D

[LmL]

I think i get it. I think its shale oil indeed. My theory is that it's build by a civilization of fire beings, more pure fire than the fire made flesh that exists today.Similar to how the others are beings made of ice. Bear with me for a moment, it's going to be a bit:

These 2 species used to determine the seasons besides the normal ones. that is any inbalance, having more otehrs than fire beings or vice versa, might bring about an exceptional summer or winter. thats why the others are making other baby's, for it creates winter.

These constructions of oily stone, they used to be set ablaze, and they can still be set on fire, thats the purpose of using that oily material. it might be an advanced or magic form of oil shale wall so to speak, inexchaustable maybe. The fire creature's used to love constructions that would be aflame all the time. Made them feel good i guess, and add heat to the planet. Now the fire people are gone there, because the fire has been exstinguished, possibly by men, or sea people even.

- the hightower: it's handy to have a giant block of flaming stone surrounded by water. Although you can possibly extinguish that fire with water, then again the flame race might have reason to build it there, to prevent it to spread to forests for ex, or prevent other fire spirits to cross the water maybe?

For the hightowers the flaming stone might be excelent as fuel for the beaconfire. Also great as a defensive measurement if they know how to set it on fire withought dammaging the rest of the construction, the more so versus others.

-Asshai: Was meant to be a giant flaming city for flame people. Flame capital. No wonder why you'd get all the ash. Would have illuminated the area of the shadows aswell i guess. One enourmous fire pile. Also extinguished apparently. And now i think i know why Dany has to go there: she has to set the city on fire, make the fire people return, so they might outbalance the others.

- Seastone chair: once a nice fiery seat for a flame king, washed away?

--------------------------

Alternativly: When taking shale oil in mind, these constructs might actually be giant heaters, build explicitly for changing the climate or even terraforming.

I just wanted to say I like this theory. It's well thought out, and if we have ice elementals, or whatever you call the Others, why night fire elementals?

I didn't see anyone comment on this so I just wanted to draw attention to it.

[ellstaysia]

I like the idea up above of the structures being beacons & fortresses made of fire, possibly to ward off the others? just finished my first complete read of the book & the mention of these structures really got me curious. great thread, but I'm more interested in why these structures were built, specifically the entire city of asshai, not what the real world geological equivalent. do we know when asshai was founded? it may be a remnant of a former empire that included yeen on sothoryos.

[TheReal_Rebel]

Labradorite has a hardness of 6.5 in the Mohs scale, close to granite. The Egyptians made obelisks of granite and were able to work diorite, that has an average hardness of about 7.

Thank you for the real world info.

It is possible that Planetos had a strong impact from a large meteor or comet or possible break off from it's moon slamming into it ("Moon is egg, Khaleesei...") putting a slight tilt and wobble in it's orbit, changing it's seasons.

But I wonder if a scientific explanation regarding the seasons takes away from one underlying metaphor of ASOIAF: manipulation of nature without truly understanding those forces and inevitable arrogance brings humanity to the brink of destruction.

[Kushluk of Skagos]

I like the idea up above of the structures being beacons & fortresses made of fire, possibly to ward off the others? just finished my first complete read of the book & the mention of these structures really got me curious. great thread, but I'm more interested in why these structures were built, specifically the entire city of asshai, not what the real world geological equivalent. do we know when asshai was founded? it may be a remnant of a former empire that included yeen on sothoryos.

I think we need to look at these massive cities and consider how they are related to catastrophe. In the North we have the uninhabitable Lands of Always winter and the Others, near Asshai we have the Shadowlands which are uninhabitable... near Valyria we have the smoking sea, uninhabitable, and then around Yeen we have a creepy jungle. Perhaps the forces of magic are controllable up to a point, but it is like a nuclear power plant. The power is so much, that if it explodes or gets out of control... your civilisation is history. Places like K'Dath and Carcossa, if they exist, seem to have survived the environmental catastrophes of their high level magic use, but only through adopting some sort of weird society adjusted to the environment (much like Asshai).

[Rody]

You know I would totally be fine if after ASOIAF finishes Martin starts writing a new series or stories about these far locations in eastern essos. Hell even if he dies or lets someone do it (like Sanderson did for The wheel of time) I would totally eat everything up. This is basically the only topic on this forum that I come to daily just to read you guys talk. Awesome topic guys.

[Ulthosian Stark]

You know I would totally be fine if after ASOIAF finishes Martin starts writing a new series or stories about these far locations in eastern essos. Hell even if he dies or lets someone do it (like Sanderson did for The wheel of time) I would totally eat everything up. This is basically the only topic on this forum that I come to daily just to read you guys talk. Awesome topic guys.

Do you think people wouldn't be ok with it? I'd really hope that everyone would enjoy it, it'd be amazing! Haha I could see people being like meh well ASOIAF is only what should happen there, but that's bull shit haha.

I like someone drew a parallel with the squishers and deep ones, maybe the squishers were just like river-style deep ones (like the kind that the First Men cleared out) and there are literal deep ocean deep ones (like the kind that Patchface would most likely be linked to).

Patchey boy brought something back with his lil mermaid incident, and speaks of mermen etc, and given the name Deep Ones I wouldn't be surprised if they're one in the same.

That would be an insane development, if Deep Ones get involved through patches and we get the balance of Fire (Dragons), Ice (Others), and Water (Deep Ones).

These are the basis for our whole lives, without ice we couldn't preserve, without fire we couldn't heat or eat, without water we surely cannot survive. I wouldn't be surprised with the whole theme of elemental equilibrium going on

[Ser Lepus]

You know I would totally be fine if after ASOIAF finishes Martin starts writing a new series or stories about these far locations in eastern essos. Hell even if he dies or lets someone do it (like Sanderson did for The wheel of time) I would totally eat everything up. This is basically the only topic on this forum that I come to daily just to read you guys talk. Awesome topic guys.

Do you think people wouldn't be ok with it? I'd really hope that everyone would enjoy it, it'd be amazing! Haha I could see people being like meh well ASOIAF is only what should happen there, but that's bull shit haha.

I like someone drew a parallel with the squishers and deep ones, maybe the squishers were just like river-style deep ones (like the kind that the First Men cleared out) and there are literal deep ocean deep ones (like the kind that Patchface would most likely be linked to).

Patchey boy brought something back with his lil mermaid incident, and speaks of mermen etc, and given the name Deep Ones I wouldn't be surprised if they're one in the same.

That would be an insane development, if Deep Ones get involved through patches and we get the balance of Fire (Dragons), Ice (Others), and Water (Deep Ones).

These are the basis for our whole lives, without ice we couldn't preserve, without fire we couldn't heat or eat, without water we surely cannot survive. I wouldn't be surprised with the whole theme of elemental equilibrium going on

I have already said that those novels would resemble the tone of some o his earlier works set in alien worlds, like In the House of the Worm, or A Song for Lya.

[thehandwipes]

That would be an insane development, if Deep Ones get involved through patches and we get the balance of Fire (Dragons), Ice (Others), and Water (Deep Ones).

I'm not a scientist but isn't there some kind of connection between ice and water? Something? Something? Like they might be related in some way?

[Waters Gate]

I'm not a scientist but isn't there some kind of connection between ice and water? Something? Something? Like they might be related in some way?

Well if you'd consder ice and fire basic elements in a elementary magic sense, then water would be a combination of the 2. It's like ice melted by fire, but otoh water can also extinguish fire.

[thehandwipes]

Well if you'd consder ice and fire basic elements in a elementary magic sense, then water would be a combination of the 2. It's like ice melted by fire, but otoh water can also extinguish fire.

Ice and Water are not two different elements, they are the same thing (H2O) is different forms, is what I was going for. Sorry for the snarky comment.

[Ser Lepus]

I'm not a scientist but isn't there some kind of connection between ice and water? Something? Something? Like they might be related in some way?

ASOIAF is fantasy, and what really matters is the symbolism:

Fire symbolizes heat, summer, light, passion, movement, pain, change, destruction and creation.

Ice represents cold, winter, darkness, emotional coldness, stillness, numbness, immutability and preservation.

Water symbolizes the ocean, depths, endlessness, life, bounty (because it feeds us, be it with crops or fish), random destruction (nothing as destructive as the enraged sea or a flood), fickleness (because you can't predict what it will give you, bounty or death), mysteries (because nobody knows what it hides) and unstoppable power.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

The scattered revelations about the Oily, Black Stones and the 'Ancient builder types' that seem to have used them is probably my favorite thread in the book.

I have a very strong feeling that these ancient peoples, human or otherwise, share a connection to 'CotF' and 'The Others' and, in general, have a strong connection to the overall history and mythology of George's world and the story he's telling.

[Ulthosian Stark]

I'm not a scientist but isn't there some kind of connection between ice and water? Something? Something? Like they might be related in some way?

There's a pretty big difference between ice and water, I drop 20 pounds of water on your head and you'll be wet. I drop 20 pounds of ice on your head and you'd probably die.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

On the scientific scale Ice and Water are two states of the same molecule.

However, on the thematic/metaphorical scale these two states symbolize vastly different ideas.

If you have any wits about you I'm sure you can suss out what ideas the two 'elements' embody on your own.

If you look you'll find that most of the classical elements have their own symbolic stand in's in ASoIaF

Ice, Fire, Earth, Stone, Storm/sky, Sea, Stars, Sun, Moon, Heaven, Night, Day, dark, light, chaos, order, life, death. the deepest depths, the farthest edges.... etc. etc. etc.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

ASOIAF is fantasy, and what really matters is the symbolism:

Fire symbolizes heat, summer, light, passion, movement, pain, change, destruction and creation.

Ice represents cold, winter, darkness, emotional coldness, stillness, numbness, immutability and preservation.

Water symbolizes the ocean, depths, endlessness, life, bounty (because it feeds us, be it with crops or fish), random destruction (nothing as destructive as the enraged sea or a flood), fickleness (because you can't predict what it will give you, bounty or death), mysteries (because nobody knows what it hides) and unstoppable power.

What the rabbit said.

[Waters Gate]

Ice and Water are not two different elements, they are the same thing (H2O) is different forms, is what I was going for. Sorry for the snarky comment.

No problem at all. Youre completly right for what regards the real world. However i disregarded this because we are faced with something along the lines of "elemental magic" in the asoiaf world where elements like ice and fire seem to be of a far greater importance in themselfs than the what in our natural science's would be considered their base component. it's the song of "ice and fire", and from that perspective one might argue that in the asoiaf world ice is far more elemental than say water or h20, almost as if ice would be the base component to be able to get water or h20. Or as if magical ice and fire were the 2 base components of which the world was build.

It's i guess how orbulas B harding argue's that one could consider it within the thematical context of the story.