The Expanse (spoilers for books 1–4)

[red snow]

Nemesis was a Greek goddess who dealt out retribution to those who slighted the pantheon.

I'd imagine it would actually lead to a massive wave of emigration - previously the only options were to go to inhospitable, militarised Mars or the even worse outer planets/Belt. Suddenly you've got Earth-like planets without all the restrictions - will be interesting to see who ends up going though.

I thought this at first but then I realised it's still a long way away and the press for the slow zone probably puts the vast majority off as fear is a good demotivator. It'd be even worse if they ever get to hear what happened on Ilus. It's usually only the brave and/or desperate that takes the risk to go somewhere else and it seems Earth works ok on the whole. So there'd have to be a political change to drive more emmigration, I'd imagine, for it to increase notably over the earthlings who've been going out into space anyway. Money motivates but I get the impression most of earth lives on some kind of benefit system anyhow

I think the scenario is different when you consider the number of corporations and the UN who'd be wanting to grab resources though. I think book 4 mentioned the attraction to Ilus was Lithium, right? So while Earth would be heavily invested in getting new planets for themselves I don't think they'd be facing much of a problem with people leaving - if anything I imagine Earth government will be actively promoting emmigration as it's clear the population is an issue.

[Boar Island]

I thought this at first but then I realised it's still a long way away and the press for the slow zone probably puts the vast majority off as fear is a good demotivator. It'd be even worse if they ever get to hear what happened on Ilus. It's usually only the brave and/or desperate that takes the risk to go somewhere else and it seems Earth works ok on the whole. So there'd have to be a political change to drive more emmigration, I'd imagine, for it to increase notably over the earthlings who've been going out into space anyway. Money motivates but I get the impression most of earth lives on some kind of benefit system anyhow

I think the scenario is different when you consider the number of corporations and the UN who'd be wanting to grab resources though. I think book 4 mentioned the attraction to Ilus was Lithium, right? So while Earth would be heavily invested in getting new planets for themselves I don't think they'd be facing much of a problem with people leaving - if anything I imagine Earth government will be actively promoting emmigration as it's clear the population is an issue.

Regarding Mars:

Bobby mentions that while unemployment is rampant on ovepopulated Earth, every Martian finds work in terraforming, the ongoing, arduous project to make Mars more habitable, which isn't guaranteed to succeed anyway. Also, in Gods of Risk we get to see the educational system which seems pretty exclusive - only a small percentage of students gets to transfer to lower & upper university (our GoR-protagonist has a b-load of work to do for his lab project). So I guess many Martians aren't happy with their situation and might want to get off their home planet (either to Ilus, or try out a few wormholes in the hub. Also, the slow zone isn't seen as a threat in Cibola Burn, so I'm not sure as to how much it deters emigrants.

[red snow]

Regarding Mars:

Bobby mentions that while unemployment is rampant on ovepopulated Earth, every Martian finds work in terraforming, the ongoing, arduous project to make Mars more habitable, which isn't guaranteed to succeed anyway. Also, in Gods of Risk we get to see the educational system which seems pretty exclusive - only a small percentage of students gets to transfer to lower & upper university (our GoR-protagonist has a b-load of work to do for his lab project). So I guess many Martians aren't happy with their situation and might want to get off their home planet (either to Ilus, or try out a few wormholes in the hub. Also, the slow zone isn't seen as a threat in Cibola Burn, so I'm not sure as to how much it deters emigrants.

I need to read some more of the short stories - I'm sure I have Gods of Risk.

These discussions do highlight how the writers have created a pretty interesting "world" in terms of the politics.

I think the slow zone and the fact it's alien made with tech that is unknown and outside control is enough to scare a lot of people. I think of it as an ocean before people knew there was land at the other side. Most don't even consider it - even when people come back and say it's possible. In Cibola burn we never really got to see if it was possible for them to live there long term. I liked those elements about not being able to eat anything there and the potential immune issues etc the most to be honest.

[Rhom]

I'm finishing my current book tonight... this weekend we have a five hour trip to Knoxville to drop my step-daughter off with her dad followed by five hours back. I'm really torn on whether or not to start a new book. :dunno: I suppose I could just volunteer to drive both legs of the trip. Hrmmm...

Anyways, my point is that I'm excited about Nemesis Games next week. :thumbsup:

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Gods of Risk was fun but my objection is that in a world where an old outdated cargo ship can on the fly synthesize custom tailored anti cancer drugs in arbitrary amounts, why

does a drug lord need to hire a genius chemist to synthesize drugs?

[williamjm]

But anyway, what was the deal with Mars at the end of Cibola Burn? I remember there being something game-changing for Martian political viability going forward, but I can't remember exactly what it was.

I think Avasarala is concerned that the new worlds potentially available to humanity mean that much of the Martian population is going to feel that a centuries-long terraforming project is too much effort and emigrate. This would leave the Martian government weakened but they still have a massive military force that's more or less the equal of Earth, and if the terraforming project is no longer viable the Martians might feel tempted to use their military to carve out their own empire which could lead them into conflict with Earth.

[Rhom]

I'm excited for the new book coming out, but I was wondering if anyone could give me a refresher since I loaned out my copy of Cibola Burn and likely won't get it back before the new book comes out?

But anyway, what was the deal with Mars at the end of Cibola Burn? I remember there being something game-changing for Martian political viability going forward, but I can't remember exactly what it was.

Does anyone know if Avasarala will be a POV character in the new one? She's hands down one of my favorite characters, along with Bobbi.

Here's a summary HE put up a page or two ago. It's loose, but I think fairly accurate.

Next book is imminent. I dont have the energy to re-read the last book, but could somebody provide a summary of the major plot? Ill have a go, probably incorrectly remembered, just so show what Im looking for:

Eons ago, the advanced space-faring civilisation P (for Protomolecule) dominated hundreds(?) of worlds, linked by worm-hole like portals all connected via a central hub. This central hub is known as the slow zone to the in-universe humans.

Hundreds of millions years ago (?), P sent a probe into the system around Sol. The probe contained the protomolecule, a piece of advanced technology. It is plausible that the purpose of this probe was to land on Earth and exploit whatever matter it found there to build another portal, thereby linking Sol to the rest of P civilisation. We, as readers, have no information about whether or not the intentions of P were hostile, or if such a moral valuation even makes sense.

At some time (?) a conflict erupted between P and some other civilisation (E, the Enemy). This led to the end of P (?). (Did the war also end E?) It had some consequences for the central hub that I have forgotten. Somebody says something about something being scared, but I forget the details. (Maybe Holden when he is inside the sphere in the centre of the hub?)

Another world that was part of P is the planet called Ilus(?) by some in-universe humans. P contains planetary defence mechanisms (set up by P?) in order to ?. It also contains remnants of E technology, probably dating from the time of their conflict. Both technologies are dormant (?) at the time humanity makes planetfall. P technology wakes up (as a defence mechanism against the humans?). E technology also plays a role, see first few posts in this thread. Plausible hypothesis: the Millerconstruct purposefully activates E technology to defeat the P technology, so that humanity can live on the planet.

[red snow]

I think Avasarala is concerned that the new worlds potentially available to humanity mean that much of the Martian population is going to feel that a centuries-long terraforming project is too much effort and emigrate. This would leave the Martian government weakened but they still have a massive military force that's more or less the equal of Earth, and if the terraforming project is no longer viable the Martians might feel tempted to use their military to carve out their own empire which could lead them into conflict with Earth.

Yeah - the Martians have the best tech in terms of weapons and training. They just lack the sheer numbers of Earth. Probably a bit like the Germans vs rest of europe in world war I (WWII is the same but the mindset of the Nazis isn't comparable to any society yet seen in the expanse).

The martian argument is very valid from a pragmatic point. I guess there's still something to be said about having a stable base of operations in the solar system and it being a prestige project. But grabbing habitable planets is probably the best short term goal and terraforming mars by its nature is probably long-term anyhow.

[Maester Llama]

Regarding the povs for Nemesis Games [this spoils who all four main povs are. Short version: No Avasarala, unless there are more than four main povs in this one. Who we do get is pretty cool though.]:

There's a big article on the path the series has taken from MMO concept to RPG to successful novels to forthcoming tv series on B&N's blog. The whole thing is really interesting. Nemesis Games is discussed near the end of it. Apparently the crew of the Rocinante separate for some reason and each of them becomes a point of view.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/the-evolution-of-james-s-a-coreys-space-epic-the-expanse/

So Naomi, Alex, and Amos are all now points of view. Which is kind of huge for the series. With Bobbie and Avasarala presumably showing up to make their lives difficult.

[williamjm]

Regarding the povs for Nemesis Games [this spoils who all four main povs are. Short version: No Avasarala, unless there are more than four main povs in this one. Who we do get is pretty cool though.]:

There's a big article on the path the series has taken from MMO concept to RPG to successful novels to forthcoming tv series on B&N's blog. The whole thing is really interesting. Nemesis Games is discussed near the end of it. Apparently the crew of the Rocinante separate for some reason and each of them becomes a point of view.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/the-evolution-of-james-s-a-coreys-space-epic-the-expanse/

So Naomi, Alex, and Amos are all now points of view. Which is kind of huge for the series. With Bobbie and Avasarala presumably showing up to make their lives difficult.

That was an interesting article on the background of the series. The choice of POVs does sound intriguing, I'm curious how it's going to work. Hopefully we'll still get quite a lot of Avasarala even if she isn't a POV.

Also interesting to read the Nemesis Game will effectively be the first part of a two-part story, I haven't heard that before.

[Howdyphillip]

One thing that I wanted to mention in this thread is how brilliant Orbit was marketing this series. Although I adore science fiction, I have been buying very little because there is just so much good fantasy out now and that is my primary love. For them to package Leviathan Wakes in when I bought The Dragon's Path was a stroke of genius. I have now bought 3 books that I love, but would never have even known about, and I will be a customer for as long as this series keeps going. I can not wait for the next installment.

[Larry of the Lawn]

One thing that I wanted to mention in this thread is how brilliant Orbit was marketing this series. Although I adore science fiction, I have been buying very little because there is just so much good fantasy out now and that is my primary love. For them to package Leviathan Wakes in when I bought The Dragon's Path was a stroke of genius. I have now bought 3 books that I love, but would never have even known about, and I will be a customer for as long as this series keeps going. I can not wait for the next installment.

It works vice versa too, I got the Dragon's Path with one of the Expanse ebooks. And pretty sure LW is only like 2 or 3 bucks for the ebook, which is an awesome way to get people hooked.

[red snow]

That's a pretty clever marketing strategy. I wonder if they try it with any of their other series? I'd be more inclined to try a book if I knew I was getting another book with it.

I've been popping into my local bookstore in the hope they put Nemesis on the shelf pre-release. It's looking like I may have to wait though.

[RedEyedGhost]

Anybody have trouble with their download today? I had preordered it Sunday, expecting it to be on my kindle this morning, and it was not. The web page showed it had been ordered, but I had to click and buy it to actually get it to download. Weird.

[Rhom]

Picked up the antique version at the local Barnes and Noble. No problems downloading the paper. ;)

[RedEyedGhost]

Picked up the antique version at the local Barnes and Noble. No problems downloading the paper. ;)

Alright, Scot :P (I ordered one of those too.)

[Corvinus85]

Anybody have trouble with their download today? I had preordered it Sunday, expecting it to be on my kindle this morning, and it was not. The web page showed it had been ordered, but I had to click and buy it to actually get it to download. Weird.

Same here. I hope I didn't pay twice.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Anybody have trouble with their download today? I had preordered it Sunday, expecting it to be on my kindle this morning, and it was not. The web page showed it had been ordered, but I had to click and buy it to actually get it to download. Weird.

Yean, i had a problem with preordering through B & N I woke up at midnight to start reading it on but it wouldn't download. Tried archoving and.unarchiving it, looked online for help, nothing. Finally checked at 7 before I went to work and it.downloaded. looking forward to picking up the antique version Rhom mentioned that's waiting at the bookstore when I'm back home this weekend. About 1/3 way through it.

[HairBearHero]

My debit card has decided to go on the blink at the exact point where Amazon tried to collect on my pre-order, so I don't have it for the moment. Can't wait though. Completely forgot it was coming out so soon, so a great surprise when the e-mail landed.

[Xray the Enforcer]

I have opened up a thread for Nemesis Games. Please do not post spoilers for that book in this thread, or I will harvest your limbs and feed them to my cats. [Happy Ent's limbs will make a fine chair for the roof deck.]