A prince born Bright

[Constantinople]

Doesn't the entry on Jaehaerys II mention the Targaryens being down to "two branches" by the time of the death of Aegon V? This could just be me, but I'd count Aegon's children as being all a singular "branch" of the house, so maybe that's a suggestion Maegor was still alive at the beginning of the 260s?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Also, it's Aerion. Does anyone really expect this guy to do anything good?

Well, no :p But still, that his actions aren't described as having been "wonderful", or "brave" doesn't automatically mean that they were bad.. :p

Actually, I can't recall what it was, but I came across one or two things which, at the time, I interpreted to mean that Aerion was more capable than I imagined he was. Certainly not things that made him seem "good," but which made him seem like he played a role for his side in a battle or something. I don't remember what it was.

Agreed. The Aerion we meet in THK doesn't leave a good impression. He tries to win his tilt with tricks, and demands a trial of seven as to not have to face Dunk on his own.

Yet in this war, he did fight, and it sounds like he was better than we (or at least, I), would have guessed from the impression left on me after reading THK.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Doesn't the entry on Jaehaerys II mention the Targaryens being down to "two branches" by the time of the death of Aegon V? This could just be me, but I'd count Aegon's children as being all a singular "branch" of the house, so maybe that's a suggestion Maegor was still alive at the beginning of the 260s?

I figured the "Targaryen" branch, and the "Baratheon" branch, as in Steffon Baratheon (Robert and Stannis hand't been born yet)

[Lord Varys]

Yes, those seems the two branches. Technically, there would be a Tarth branch, too, but that one could be pretty far removed at this time. This suggests that Maegor's and Duncan's line died at Summerhall.

[Fae Boleyn]

Maybe what he did was remarkable and useful, but kinda shady somehow, which is why a neutral term is used.

[Bael's Bastard]

I figured the "Targaryen" branch, and the "Baratheon" branch, as in Steffon Baratheon (Robert and Stannis hand't been born yet)

I agree, that is how I interpreted it.

[Bironic]

Maybe Aerion was the one who killed Haegon I Blackfyre after he surrendered.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Doesn't the entry on Jaehaerys II mention the Targaryens being down to "two branches" by the time of the death of Aegon V? This could just be me, but I'd count Aegon's children as being all a singular "branch" of the house, so maybe that's a suggestion Maegor was still alive at the beginning of the 260s?

This statement is actually in the section on Aerys II, and refers to the beginning of his reign.

The new king had already provided the realm with an heir in the person of his son Rhaegar, born amongst the flames of Summerhall. Aerys and his queen, his sister Rhaella, were young, and it was anticipated that they would have many more children. This was a vital question at the time, for the tragedies of Aegon the Unlikely's reign had trimmed the noble tree of House Targaryen down to just a pair of lonely branches.

(emphasis is mine)

I would contend that the "two lonely branches" refer to Aerys and Rhaella themselves. (He seems to be disregarding little Rhaegar for the moment, since he is referring to current breeding potential.) If the second branch refers to Rhaelle's descendants in House Baratheon, then why not also list House Tarth, Martell, Velaryon, etc... ? There's lots of Targ blood in lines descended from Targ females in Westeros and beyond, but only two living adult Targaryens at this time.

It seems Yandel is considering each individual on the family tree to be their own little branch in this case. Duncan the Small's descendants (if any) aren't considered part of the house anymore for inheritance reasons. Aemon has removed himself from the gene pool voluntarily. The females have married into other lines. It might imply Maegor died without sons to carry on the name, or might just be ignorance (or deliberate omission) on Yandel's part.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

This statement is actually in the section on Aerys II, and refers to the beginning of his reign.

(emphasis is mine)

I would contend that the "two lonely branches" refer to Aerys and Rhaella themselves. (He seems to be disregarding little Rhaegar for the moment, since he is referring to current breeding potential.) If the second branch refers to Rhaelle's descendants in House Baratheon, then why not also list House Tarth, Martell, Velaryon, etc... ? There's lots of Targ blood in lines descended from Targ females in Westeros and beyond, but only two living adult Targaryens at this time.

It seems Yandel is considering each individual on the family tree to be their own little branch in this case. Duncan the Small's descendants (if any) aren't considered part of the house anymore for inheritance reasons. Aemon has removed himself from the gene pool voluntarily. The females have married into other lines. It might imply Maegor died without sons to carry on the name, or might just be ignorance (or deliberate omission) on Yandel's part.

Because the quote is talking about the reign of "King Aegon V", and there's only of two children descendants left. Or at least, that's how I figured it was supposed to be read..

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Because the quote is talking about the reign of "King Aegon V", and there's only of two children descendants left. Or at least, that's how I figured it was supposed to be read..

I took it to mean "the present situation as of the beginning of Aerys' reign" is attributable to "past events in Aegon's time", but that the "two branches " definitely referred to the present (262 AC).

In the end House Targaryen =/= House Baratheon, and the specific reference with that term is what influences my interpretation.

[Lord Knightmare]

I took it to mean "the present situation as of the beginning of Aerys' reign" is attributable to "past events in Aegon's time", but that the "two branches " definitely referred to the present (262 AC).

In the end House Targaryen =/= House Baratheon, and the specific reference with that term is what influences my interpretation.

There are two branches left Aerys and Aemon

[OmnomnomPomelo]

I think too that Illyrio and Varys can have a Targaryen predecessor(s), (but I don't want it to be true :D ) coz for example Varys shaves himself like Egg did, Illyrio dyes himself like Jon Connington/Griff, Illyrio had dragon eggs too and took a lyseni as wife and a lot of lyseni has the blood of Valyria, they had "Aegon"/Young Griff who told be a Targaryen, we never heard about Bittersteel's children (if he had any) nor Daemon's daughters and there are some missing Targaryens like this Maegor son of Aerion.

[Veltigar]

Was it confirmed that Illyrio's dyes his hair?

[OmnomnomPomelo]

I don't think he can have yellow hair on his body without dying it.

[Lord Varys]

It reads two lonely branches [of House Targaryen], this does not necessarily mean that those two branches must be named Targaryen. Aerys-Rhaella-Rhaegar represent one branch, Rhaelle and Steffon another.

The Baratheons are close allies and relatives of the ruling dynasty at this point, and this is actually referenced during the reign of Jaehaerys II and Aerys II.

Any Targaryens at the Wall would have been excluded, of course.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

I think there's a difference between being a "member of a house" and "being related to a house". Steffon Baratheon is a member of House Baratheon, obviously. You can't be a member of two Houses at the same time. He's related to House Targaryen, as are many others. The Tarths, Martells, maybe Velaryons, Hightowers etc... are related to House Targaryen, but members of their own House. The difference between House Baratheon's relationship to House Targaryen on one hand, and House Martell's relationship to House Targaryen on the other hand, is merely one of degree. But the difference between House Baratheon and House Targaryen is one of kind. IMO

The reason I read it this way is because it is at this point of the story that we enter the heart of the Yandel Spin Zone. Yandel wants to emphasize the dearth of Targaryens so there will be less of a controversy when House Baratheon takes over. This would also give him a motive for not mentioning other possible claimants, such as descendants of Maegor or Duncan. If he were including the Baratheons, there's no reason not to include the other related houses, like Tarth and Martell. That reminds everyone in Westeros to look outside the name "Targaryen" for other claimants. Remember that Robert didn't claim the throne based on descent. (Viserys had a better claim.) He claimed it based on victory.

I see Yandel, in this case, using the word "branch" to indicate each individual, the way some baby books actually show a tree with a pair of ancestors at the bottom of the trunk and the descendents occupying higher places in the tree. If you want to see the latest descendants, they're at the top of the tree, and the end of branches/twigs. Yandel is using the ambiguity of the word "branch" to help him spin his narrative.

[Lord Varys]

Yandel clearly uses the marriage between Rhaelle and Ormund to solidify Robert's claim. You can get that from the way he describes it. The Tarths would be the only other recent cadet branch we know of, as all the others may have died at Summerhall or disappeared into obscurity.

[Wmarshal]

For what it's worth, I think we'll get a lot more Aerion in upcoming D&E tales than even I expected. There are his known ill deeds during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. On top of that, I'm guessing Aerion will be behind Haegon's murder. It's also strange to see that the people who posed a threat to Aerion's claim to the IT seem to have died prematurely if you catch my drift.

Also it would seem he dabbled in magic.

[John Doe]

He went to Essos and fathered whatever fathered Aegon?

In this case Varys and Illyrio wouldn't have to make up the pisswater prince story imho, as he would already be the person with the strongest claim.

[Lord Varys]

Varys could be Maegor's son. But perhaps he was an only child? As a eunuch, he can't continue his line, thus he is creating a pretender who can continue his work/take up his torch. Varys must have a strong connection to Westeros to explain his motivation.