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A prince born Bright


Wmarshal

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Varys could be Maegor's son. But perhaps he was an only child? As a eunuch, he can't continue his line, thus he is creating a pretender who can continue his work/take up his torch. Varys must have a strong connection to Westeros to explain his motivation.

That could certainly be true. However, I think it's dramatically more interesting if Serra was Varys' sister. It fits better with the series as well imo, since that way it's more of marriage alliance between Houses Blackfyre and the Brightflame Targaryens.

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Varys and Illyrio being cousins from different branches of the Blackfyre tree - Illyrio a descendant of Calla/Bittersteel (and possibly another Blackfyre son/grandson), and Varys perhaps a grandson of Aenys or one of the younger sons - could also work.


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I don't object to Illyrio being a descendant of Bittersteel, if he was able to produce offspring. Because of his bitter hatred, I can't help myself but take him as a gay like JonCon. I am most probably wrong but still... The guy seems too hateful to sire children.


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Varys and Illyrio being cousins from different branches of the Blackfyre tree - Illyrio a descendant of Calla/Bittersteel (and possibly another Blackfyre son/grandson), and Varys perhaps a grandson of Aenys or one of the younger sons - could also work.

But then you lose the Aerion connection. A character that is much more established than Bittersteel, the latter of whom we don't even know whether or not he sired any children (Personally, I hope that he and BR both remained childless. It would make a nice parallel between the two of them imo). The Aerion connection also adds more to the story, it makes it more personal. It also has these sly hints in the text and even the name Maegor which feels like it supports the Brightflame connection more.

I do think that, if Bittersteel sired any children, a descendant of him will also come into play. if he had a daughter, he'd certainly marry her back into the main Blackfyre line. He was after all the big boss, despite not being the King. I think the likeliest scenario right now for the Blackfyre heritage of Faegon is a sister/niece to the Daemon Blackfyre Maelys killed to assume command of the GC. If there was one Blackfyre line with a drop of Bittersteel in it, I'm sure it would be that one.

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I imagine he had only daughters, one of which is Illyrio's great-grandmother or grandmother.



On Maegor: Well, that guy has been tossed around as Varys' potential ancestor since well before I even read the series, but with the whole Blackfyre angle Varys could easily also be the son of a daughter of Aenys, or a nephew of the Daemon Maelys killed.



It is difficult to say. But if Prince Maegor did not die in the cradle - which is still a possibility - his life may turn out to be interesting in any case. If he has nothing to do with Varys, he could still be the Ape Prince. And who cares about Varys if the Ape Prince question can be answered...?



I imagine Bittersteel deliberately married Haegon to one of Calla's younger sisters, to mimic and continue the royal incest. Daemon III could have been married to one of the (younger) daughters of Calla and Aegor.



And Bittersteel could easily have quite a lot of children, even sons. They could all have died, making him even more bitter. Both the Third and Fourth Rebellion really give ample opportunity for many Blackfyres of fighting age to be slain.



The best hint that Illyrio is a direct descendant of Bittersteel is his 'some contracts are written in blood' line. I really think only a Bittersteel descendant could really hold the kind of sway Illyrio has over the Golden Company. A descendant of the founder, and long-serving first captain-general is simply the best option for a man in the background to still have influence over them. Just some guy with a little bit of Blackfyre blood and his eunuch friend? Not so much...


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I don't think the Ape Prince is so recent. The Targaryens, certainly after the troubles Egg faced, couldn't have been indulging a crazy prince right then, certainly not one with a marriage related folly. Wasn't there an Aegon, a brother to Viserys and Daemon, I think he fits the bill more. The Targaryens were a lot more powerful back then and Viserys I was the type of guy who loved his brothers dearly.

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I imagine he had only daughters, one of which is Illyrio's great-grandmother or grandmother.

On Maegor: Well, that guy has been tossed around as Varys' potential ancestor since well before I even read the series, but with the whole Blackfyre angle Varys could easily also be the son of a daughter of Aenys, or a nephew of the Daemon Maelys killed.

I think Illyrio is the Blackfyre descendant. With Maegor being the father of Serra and Varys.

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I imagine he had only daughters, one of which is Illyrio's great-grandmother or grandmother.

On Maegor: Well, that guy has been tossed around as Varys' potential ancestor since well before I even read the series, but with the whole Blackfyre angle Varys could easily also be the son of a daughter of Aenys, or a nephew of the Daemon Maelys killed.

It is difficult to say. But if Prince Maegor did not die in the cradle - which is still a possibility - his life may turn out to be interesting in any case. If he has nothing to do with Varys, he could still be the Ape Prince. And who cares about Varys if the Ape Prince question can be answered...?

I imagine Bittersteel deliberately married Haegon to one of Calla's younger sisters, to mimic and continue the royal incest. Daemon III could have been married to one of the (younger) daughters of Calla and Aegor.

And Bittersteel could easily have quite a lot of children, even sons. They could all have died, making him even more bitter. Both the Third and Fourth Rebellion really give ample opportunity for many Blackfyres of fighting age to be slain.

The best hint that Illyrio is a direct descendant of Bittersteel is his 'some contracts are written in blood' line. I really think only a Bittersteel descendant could really hold the kind of sway Illyrio has over the Golden Company. A descendant of the founder, and long-serving first captain-general is simply the best option for a man in the background to still have influence over them. Just some guy with a little bit of Blackfyre blood and his eunuch friend? Not so much...

Illyrio did start out as a wandering bravo, something of a sellsword's son fate.

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Yeah, but that suggests that he was not aware of his true heritage (or close to the Golden Company) at this point. He may have been an orphan, like Varys. My guess is that Varys found out who Illyrio actually was (or rather, from whom he was descended), and this is essentially the core of the Varys-Illyrio-relationship. Varys not only made Illyrio the rich and wealthy guy he is today, he made him the man he is by telling him who he is.


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I think there is strong merit in Serra being blood of Maegor, when Aerys sent Steffon to find Rhaegar a bride it was likely from Maegor's branch, and the reason it failed probably had to do with her being sold to slavery.


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Yeah, but that suggests that he was not aware of his true heritage (or close to the Golden Company) at this point. He may have been an orphan, like Varys. My guess is that Varys found out who Illyrio actually was (or rather, from whom he was descended), and this is essentially the core of the Varys-Illyrio-relationship. Varys not only made Illyrio the rich and wealthy guy he is today, he made him the man he is by telling him who he is.

Or he was in hiding at that time. I think Illyrio's story or the story of Illyrio's mother will strongly parallel that of Dany and Viserys. After Maelys slew her father/brother/uncle, she might have fled with some GC-members loyal to Daemon, to avoid a forced marriage or just to save her own life. Maelys had some very powerful friends at the time, so I guess they would have traveled in hiding. After a lot of wandering, she settled down in Pentos. Illyrio was born or at least raised there, his mother might have died indeed or she might have kept his heritage from him, fearing to be found by Maegor or being brought back to the GC who followed him.

EDIT: The mother of Illyrio might have brought other things with her as well. There is a distinct possibility that she managed to steal Blackfyre away from Illyrio and took it with her. That would have left Illyrio with a strong sway over the GC later on, because he would be a returning Blackfyre descendant (with perhaps Bittersteel blood also in his veins) with the sword in hand.

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Or he was in hiding at that time. I think Illyrio's story or the story of Illyrio's mother will strongly parallel that of Dany and Viserys. After Maelys slew her father/brother/uncle, she might have fled with some GC-members loyal to Daemon, to avoid a forced marriage or just to save her own life. Maelys had some very powerful friends at the time, so I guess they would have traveled in hiding. After a lot of wandering, she settled down in Pentos. Illyrio was born or at least raised there, his mother might have died indeed or she might have kept his heritage from him, fearing to be found by Maegor or being brought back to the GC who followed him.

EDIT: The mother of Illyrio might have brought other things with her as well. There is a distinct possibility that she managed to steal Blackfyre away from Illyrio and took it with her. That would have left Illyrio with a strong sway over the GC later on, because he would be a returning Blackfyre descendant (with perhaps Bittersteel blood also in his veins) with the sword in hand.

That would explain if blackfyre truly was in Illyrio's keep, I can't see how a slave like Serra or Varys being able to keep it.

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I think Illyrio was already rich and aware of his heritage. He made a statue of himself at 16. I think he fought in the Wot9PK and he met Varys there, who just came from being the saboteur at Summerhal. I think Varys didnot reveal himself at first because they could have killed him just like Aenys was killed. He looked for a person whom he could trust and Illyrio was that guy. Varys gave him the dragon eggs he stole from Summerhal as a proof of his murder of his kin and commitment in his further revenge.



There seems to be a pattern that first born children of Targs and non-Targs do not seem to carry Valyrian features but later chidlren start to look like Targs. Perhaps that is why Varys does not have Valyrian features (or at least violet eyes if he has silver hair). The Valyrian features should fully reveal in younger Serra. I am also of the oinion that the mother of Varys might have died in childbirth and Serra might be his half sister.


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I think Illyrio was already rich and aware of his heritage. He made a statue of himself at 16. I think he fought in the Wot9PK and he met Varys there, who just came from being the saboteur at Summerhal. I think Varys didnot reveal himself at first because they could have killed him just like Aenys was killed. He looked for a person whom he could trust and Illyrio was that guy. Varys gave him the dragon eggs he stole from Summerhal as a proof of his murder of his kin and commitment in his further revenge.

No, he didn't. He was the model for a statue when he was 16. It isn't stated anywhere at what age Illyrio actually bought the thing.. There could have been quite some years in between, easily.

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No, he didn't. He was the model for a statue when he was 16. It isn't stated anywhere at what age Illyrio actually bought the thing.. There could have been quite some years in between, easily.

What is the point of making a statue if he is not buying it? Why should an artist waste his time to carve an expensive statue if there is no immediate customer? Why should any person buy the statue of random nobody?

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What is the point of making a statue if he is not buying it? Why should an artist waste his time to carve an expensive statue if there is no immediate customer? Why should any person buy the statue of random nobody?

Many artists in the past used models to create for a customer not the model. Illyrio probably did it for quick cash and after getting good a rich and fat bought to remember his sexier days.

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Not that it is inherently impossible in this series, but I am not buying Varys as a preteen mass murderer of his family. And I don't think any of Aerion's legitimate descendants survived Summerhall personally.

I think that is the official story. Varys (who probably had another name) faked his death and took Serra with him.

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Velt,



interesting speculation. An interesting variation would be if Illyrio's mother died when he was still young/a child (or even in childbirth), and his stepfather/his family/other people threw him out of the house, making effectively a poor bravo. Varys would then be the guy who both uncovered his past and helped him to get revenge on those people.



If Illyrio comes from the fourth Daemon's line (possibly being his nephew or grandson - depending on when Maelys slew Daemon) he/his family could indeed always had Blackfyre, if the Blackfyre did not lose the sword. Daemon would have had the sword as he seems to have been the most senior Blackfyre and the rightful captain-general of the Golden Company when Maelys slew him. He would have had 'the sword'.



As to Serra:



I really like the irony more that Illyrio's Valyrian blood was way too diluted to father a child with Valyrian features. Thus Varys and Illyrio used a poor Lysene whore for the job. I've still not ye fully bought the Serra-Illyrio-love-story. That could just be a ploy Illyrio uses to bond with Tyrion. He must have realized rather early that the whole Shae thing Varys has cooked up (or allowed to happen) may have completely broken him...



Statue:



All we know that Illyrio was the model for the thing. That means he was most likely not only a bravo but a 'model/actor' as well, at the lower end of the society. Being a sentimental guy he later bought the statue from the person it was made for.


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