bobbechk Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 In the chapter about the mountain clans of the Vale it is said that the clan of" Burned-men" was originally an offshoot of the "Painted Dogs" that worshiped a fire-witch in the mountains sometimes after the Dance of the Dragons.Sending their boys to bring her gifts and risk the flames of the dragon she commanded to prove their manhood. When hearing this I suddenly remembered this passage from "The Princess and the Queen":While searching the Riverlands for Prince Aemond Targaryen, Prince Daemon Targaryen took Nettles for a bedmate and made their base in Maidenpool. When Maester Norren informed them that Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen had declared her a traitor, Daemon allowed her to escape. Nettles was last seen flying Sheepstealer into the morning mists of the Bay of Crabs So she was actually flying towards the Vale and might have taken refuge in the mountains as the "Burned-men" legend might suggest...These "gifts" might well have been sheep for Sheepstealer to eat and kept them safe in hiding after the Dance This doesn't really change anything (Or could Sheepstealer still be alive up in those mountains?) but it put a little smile on my face thinking that Nettles settled down to be worshiped by a clan of crazy people...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I do wonder if she stayed in Westeros or not. Imo she stayed in the Mountains during the winter (so six years IIRC), but she went away eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think it's actually a fun easter egg/nod to people who've read tPatQ. Other than giving a nifty origin to the Burned Men, I'm not sure how it would come into play in the modern era. But it's definitely interesting for its own sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulthosian Stark Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Maybe she developed powers in those mountains? They do call her a fire witch, although the fire part could be the giant fire breathing lizard she rode.Nettles=Ghost of High Heart=SHEEPSTEALER BURNED SUMMERHALLJk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbechk Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Maybe she developed powers in those mountains? They do call her a fire witch, although the fire part could be the giant fire breathing lizard she rode.Nettles=Ghost of High Heart=SHEEPSTEALER BURNED SUMMERHALLJk Obviously Sheepstealer is Melisandre (its a powerful charm...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vulture King Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I made a post about this a day after the book came out. After thinking more and more about it I don't think the woman they are referring to is in fact Nettles. For a dragon not to be seen by anyone in a whole winter is just to far fected for me. Even if they are in the most remote part of the Vale and she tries to keep Sheepstealer on the ground as most as possible I still see no way a travler/scout like ranger for some keep/caste or just a common small folk or traveler would not see the dragon at least once. Also the wording "fire witch" is odd. Nettles had no magic history or properties about her (besides dragon blood). I personally think this "fire witch" was some sort of wood witch who could produce dragon like creatures out of fire or something along those lines. I also think Nettles left Westeros days after departing from Daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think the fire witch is Alys Rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgf Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Where does it say no one saw the dragon? Doubtful anyone would go up into the mountains during winter to find out, and if nettles dipset for essos after the winter people would've just dismissed it as a myth with only the mountain clan who feed her any the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogorath Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Yep, obviously Nettles. Nice little Easter Egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinsarellaSand Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Nice catch! I agree that it's probably a reference to where Nettles went, since it specifically refers to the clan having broken off in the years after the Dance of the Dragons. That said, while it would certainly be cool if Sheepstealer (or any of the other dragons left after the Dance) were still around, I very, very much doubt that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulthosian Stark Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Nice catch! I agree that it's probably a reference to where Nettles went, since it specifically refers to the clan having broken off in the years after the Dance of the Dragons. That said, while it would certainly be cool if Sheepstealer (or any of the other dragons left after the Dance) were still around, I very, very much doubt that is the case. Sheepstealer would be Black Dread status huge by now too, or at least Vhagar big, highly noticeable creature. Only thing I can think of coming from this is if Sheepstealer laid eggs, and they hatched and now somebody has it, or its wild and could possibly be tamed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I can help but notice that the author of twoiaf specifically said nothing was learned of Nettles and Sheepstealer until later, meaning eventually they did find out where they went, yet we are not specifically told. I wonder if this means it will somehow play a part in the main series, and that is why we are not told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I think the fire witch is Alys Rivers. Again (I say again because I asked this already and didn't get an answer), where would Alys have gotten a dragon? And which dragon? If you want to say it's Alys, you need to account for the dragon. As for the "witch" part, if Nettles were exotic-looking to the mountain clans and commanded a dragon, I could easily see how a primitive society would think she was a witch. The people also obviously saw the dragon at some point, because they were burned by the damn dragon. Given how the clans are separate from the rest of the Andal Valemen, it makes perfect sense that something like this could happen in their more-remote areas while the rest of the Vale is largely oblivious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 we have a problem with the quarths candles that only got fire back when Daenerys plot gifts were born. Sadly thats my biggest problem with any other dragon being alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I do wonder if she stayed in Westeros or not. Imo she stayed in the Mountains during the winter (so six years IIRC), but she went away eventually.Agreed. The maester doesn't make the connection between Nettles and the fire witch. She probably did something of note later on, because her fate (or that of her dragon) was eventually found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Muradin the Small Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Its probably an easter egg, but I don't think Sheepstealer will magically awaken in the present to do something of worth. It probably died at least a hundred years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 we have a problem with the quarths candles that only got fire back when Daenerys plot gifts were born. Sadly thats my biggest problem with any other dragon being alive. There is an alternate theory that dragons doesn't bring back strong magic, but that the return of strong magic was the necessary prerrequisite to bring back the dragons. In short, strong magic came first, and that allowed dragon eggs to hatch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgf Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 we have a problem with the quarths candles that only got fire back when Daenerys plot gifts were born. Sadly thats my biggest problem with any other dragon being alive. That assumes one led to the ohter rather than both simply reflecting the returning strength of magic that allowed the candles to work again and dany's eggs to hatch. In which case another dragon being alive wouldn't change the equation, although I think it's more likely sheepstealer laid some eggs somewhere along the way that may have even hatched around when dany's eggs hatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I made a post about this a day after the book came out. After thinking more and more about it I don't think the woman they are referring to is in fact Nettles. For a dragon not to be seen by anyone in a whole winter is just to far fected for me. Even if they are in the most remote part of the Vale and she tries to keep Sheepstealer on the ground as most as possible I still see no way a travler/scout like ranger for some keep/caste or just a common small folk or traveler would not see the dragon at least once. Also the wording "fire witch" is odd. Nettles had no magic history or properties about her (besides dragon blood). I personally think this "fire witch" was some sort of wood witch who could produce dragon like creatures out of fire or something along those lines. I also think Nettles left Westeros days after departing from Daemon. It is never stated that the dragon wasn't seen by anyone. In fact, all those who had to "proof their manhood" would have been face to face with the dragon. And these are the mountains of the Vale, where the mountain clans live. Small folk and travellers won't venture into such territories, for fear of being attacked, imprisoned or killed. As long as Nettles kept Sheepstealer off the roads, they would be out of sight. As to the description of witch.. As has been stated, Nettles looked exotic, she was master of a firebreathing dragon, and perhaps she had even learned a few magic tricks to keep the fear amongst the mountain clans. I think the fire witch is Alys Rivers. Alys didn't have a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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