UnmaskedLurker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I think there's definitely a reason it's repeatedly made clear to us that "the secrets of Valyria are lost". There is important information that will be revealed, and the only way it could be plausably not known until now would be the almost total loss of Valyrian knowledge. Some literal part to "blood of the dragon" would be my guess too. I suspect the secret is the secret on how to do the blood magic necessary to bind dragons to a person's bloodline. I think the nature of the secret might be revealed. I doubt that the actual secret will be revealed, i.e., I don't think anyone will learn how to bind dragons. I think that knowledge may be lost forever. But the nature of the bond and the general description of what happened to bind the dragons to the bloodlines of the dragon lord families might come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I suspect the secret is the secret on how to do the blood magic necessary to bind dragons to a person's bloodline. I think the nature of the secret might be revealed. I doubt that the actual secret will be revealed, i.e., I don't think anyone will learn how to bind dragons. I think that knowledge may be lost forever. But the nature of the bond and the general description of what happened to bind the dragons to the bloodlines of the dragon lord families might come out. If that is true then the end of the Tarygaren bloodline (the last dragonrider family on Planetos) might be the end of the story. The end of magic and the start of the mundane like our world - kind of like Lord of the Rings with the passing of the Elves and the beginning of the dominion of Men. GRRM did say bittersweet ending - maybe Dany, Jon and possibly Tyrion will all die at the end. I do think Jon will lead companions (consisting of Ed, Grenn, Dywen, Samwell and yes Allister Thorne) under guidance of Bran, to the far north, to wipe out the source of the Others once and for all - and wipe out that ice magic, kind of like the First Hero. But he won't come back, self sacrifice. I think Dany will lead the big battle of Westeros vs the Others on the Trident, but will probably die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaechyll Targaryen Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 If that is true then the end of the Tarygaren bloodline (the last dragonrider family on Planetos) might be the end of the story. The end of magic and the start of the mundane like our world - kind of like Lord of the Rings with the passing of the Elves and the beginning of the dominion of Men. GRRM did say bittersweet ending - maybe Dany, Jon and possibly Tyrion will all die at the end. If it is true that the dragonriding is tied to the blood I have to admit that this does kind of make me want to root for Jon and Dany to have at least one kid if not more. It probably won't happen but I always feel bad when I read about lines dying out in this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 If that is true then the end of the Tarygaren bloodline (the last dragonrider family on Planetos) might be the end of the story. The end of magic and the start of the mundane like our world - kind of like Lord of the Rings with the passing of the Elves and the beginning of the dominion of Men. GRRM did say bittersweet ending - maybe Dany, Jon and possibly Tyrion will all die at the end. I do think Jon will lead companions (consisting of Ed, Grenn, Dywen, Samwell and yes Allister Thorne) under guidance of Bran, to the far north, to wipe out the source of the Others once and for all - and wipe out that ice magic, kind of like the First Hero. But he won't come back, self sacrifice. I think Dany will lead the big battle of Westeros vs the Others on the Trident, but will probably die. Interesting thought--I never considered that. But take into account that there are other people engaging in magic (such as Asshai). So even if that particular magical bond is dead in the world, magic is not entirely gone. Is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys Targaryen III Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'm not so sure about Tyrion being malformed as a result of Targ blood (tbh I would hate it if he is a secret Targ, I'm not neutral on this point) because Tyrion lives. Do we have any information regarding births from Targs with the children being alive/living beyond the age of one, while being twisted and deformed? Bringing this quote back. I tend to agree, the only malformed Targ baby that lived to adulthood was Maelys Blackfyre (Maelys the Monstrous) and he was a fully grown man, not a dwarf. Perhaps GRRM is dropping hints, that Tyrion might be a malformed Targ baby. But it is equally as possible that he is just a dwarf (we know they exist in Westeros) and a Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am sick of the abundance of secret Targ theories. I don't want to see Tryion be one, but I have to admit it has legs. Aerys had opportunity, he wanted to do it, there are rumors, the theme of Targs and malformed babies, the dragon dreams and the kicker is the rumor that he was born with a tail that was cut off. It certainly has it's merits. I'm hoping they are just hints to get the reader thinking, because I can't figure out an easy way to reveal it. Aerys, Tywin and Joanna are dead and no one else would know for a fact (maybe Pycelle), so the cleanest reveal is Tyrion being able to ride a dragon or at least interact with them, which I don't want to see. But there is enough there that I can't dismiss it or even call it unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am sick of the abundance of secret Targ theories. I don't want to see Tryion be one, but I have to admit it has legs. Aerys had opportunity, he wanted to do it, there are rumors, the theme of Targs and malformed babies, the dragon dreams and the kicker is the rumor that he was born with a tail that was cut off. It certainly has it's merits. I'm hoping they are just hints to get the reader thinking, because I can't figure out an easy way to reveal it. Aerys, Tywin and Joanna are dead and no one else would know for a fact (maybe Pycelle), so the cleanest reveal is Tyrion being able to ride a dragon or at least interact with them, which I don't want to see. But there is enough there that I can't dismiss it or even call it unlikely. Lol, Pycelle is dead too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Lol, Pycelle is dead too. That's right. Yea so no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 That's right. Yea so no one. Well Barristan was around, and clearly has an idea about it, even if he did not divulge everything to Dany when they talked about it. Also there is Gerion Lannister, who would almost certainly have some idea. But Tyrion was so certain about BBP's heritage based solely on the fact that the dragons liked him, so it makes sense for Tyrion to apply that same reasoning to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 That's right. Yea so no one. What about someone who was guarding the door during the rape? Barristan perhaps? Or maybe it is revealed to Tyrion in a vision? If the only objection to the theory is that it has no way to be revealed, then someone is underestimating the creativity of GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaechyll Targaryen Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Or maybe it is revealed to Tyrion in a vision? If Joanna can come to Jaime in a vision/dream why wouldn't she be able to come to Tyrion? I think the dream/vision that Jaime had of Joanna was significant. The elimination of Tyrion when discussing Tywin's children is interesting when considering the theories of Tyrion's parentage and it makes one think of Ned in his cell not thinking of Jon when he's considering the fates of his children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yes, it is true, Barristan or some nameless guard or steward might know that Aeyrs raped Joanna, Barristan certainly. Seems like crappy reveal to Tyrion that Barristan/random was standing out the door when his mom was raped and also knows for a matter of fact that Tywin did not have sex with her for a 2 month period on either side. Could happen but I don't think it makes sense as a reveal in the book as a secret Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yes, it is true, Barristan or some nameless guard or steward might know that Aeyrs raped Joanna, Barristan certainly. Seems like crappy reveal to Tyrion that Barristan/random was standing out the door when his mom was raped and also knows for a matter of fact that Tywin did not have sex with her for a 2 month period on either side. Could happen but I don't think it makes sense as a reveal in the book as a secret Targ. Obviously, it is doubtful Barristan would know whether Tywin and Joanna had sex around the same time. But Barristan might know about the rape and its timing in relation to Tyrion's birth. Barristan would not know for sure. But if Tyrion does something very Targ like (suppose he bonds with a dragon) and Barristan is around to see it--he might feel obliged to reveal to Tyrion what he saw approximately 9 moons prior to Tyrion's birth. I am not predicting that this sequence of events will happen. I am merely suggesting that it is one scenario that would fit all of the clues and be a way to reveal to Tyrion and the readers that Aerys is really Tyrion's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 It is not known that Aerys and Joanna had sex, let alone how many months was that before Tyrion's birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 It is not known that Aerys and Joanna had sex, let alone how many months was that before Tyrion's birth. I was responding to a particular question that even IF Barristan was there for the rape, he still would not be a viable candidate to reveal the information to Tyrion because he would not know for sure that Tywin did no also have sex with Joanna and the reveal would be "crappy" if done by Barristan. So my response was based on a hypothetical assumption that the rape happened and Barristan knew about it. I was not asserting this information as fact. I was merely stating that if true, I suggested a possible scenario in which Barristan would be the source of confirmation of parentage and the reveal would not be "crappy." I never said it was "known" that A&J had sex or that the sex occurred at a specific time. I merely stated that if such a thing happened. Barristan might know about it and could be the source of the reveal. All that said, while I don't really know how the reveal might happen, as you already know, I think the clues that Aerys is the bio-dad of Tyrion are fairly persuasive and have convinced me of the likelihood. But I do not believe and have never stated that it is "known" or proven with 100% certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I am convinced that Gerion Lannister is the biological father of Tyrion and I see many clues pointing to that case and I can think of many plausible scenarios to reveal that (for a start, by introducing Gerion himself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I am convinced that Gerion Lannister is the biological father of Tyrion and I see many clues pointing to that case and I can think of many plausible scenarios to reveal that (for a start, by introducing Gerion himself). Lol, You will be disappointed about this. There have been no hints towards it, not even one mention of Joanna and Gerion ever having a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I am convinced that Gerion Lannister is the biological father of Tyrion and I see many clues pointing to that case and I can think of many plausible scenarios to reveal that (for a start, by introducing Gerion himself). How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I am convinced that Gerion Lannister is the biological father of Tyrion and I see many clues pointing to that case and I can think of many plausible scenarios to reveal that (for a start, by introducing Gerion himself). What would be the importance of such a development. There are many reasons why A+J=T can have significance for the story (head of the dragon and/or ride a dragon, just to name a couple). But what difference would it make to find out that Gerion Lannister is Tyrion's bio-dad? How would that affect the narrative? How would that move the story forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 This 'Gerion is the Corsair King' theory is just a fancy tale. The idea that Gerion might actually be the Shrouded Lord is much more likely if you ask me, and if that's the case then there still exists a deleted chapter in which Tyrion meets him which may read eventually. But if that's the case, then this does not have any real importance for the story, or does not really fit into the narrative in the way George wants it, which is why it was deleted. The return of one uncle who was presumed to be dead is more than enough for the narrative. There are plenty of other interesting Lannisters that could be flashed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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