TWOIAF Spoilers: The dragon in Winterfell and its possible future relevance to the plot

[cgf]

The rumour of dragon eggs in Winterfell makes no sense to me. The idea comes from Mushroom, but how would he know this, precisely? Did Vermax tell him? If there are dragon eggs in the crypts of Winterfell, surely the Starks would have to know about it for anyone else to?

Because GRRM wanted him to know?

[Colonel Green]

A lot of the "rumours" in this book are just historical conjecture, for the sake of realism for the book project. You're meant to question the sources.

[Lord Varys]

Mushroom's source would have been Jace, after his return to Dragonstone. This whole thing could only have become a story if Vermax had went missing while Cregan and Jace were talking, and then later found in the crypts by Cregan and Jace, along with the eggs. Jace then may have counseled Cregan to leave them there until his/the Targaryen bride arrived to hatch them (or until some Targaryen-Starks have been born).

[Frozentree]

Mushroom's source would have been Jace, after his return to Dragonstone. This whole thing could only have become a story if Vermax had went missing while Cregan and Jace were talking, and then later found in the crypts by Cregan and Jace, along with the eggs. Jace then may have counseled Cregan to leave them there until his/the Targaryen bride arrived to hatch them (or until some Targaryen-Starks have been born).

And the Starks just forgot they own such precious items? Even dead eggs are very rare and expensive, if Starks had some they would be in a display case, not freezing in some crypt. Imagine he didn't receive eggs, but a huge dowry of gold and diamonds. Would he just leave it where it was and eventually forget about it if his bride failed to come/died?

[Elkrider]

The fact that the dragon Summer saw was seen and gone in a split second makes me think that it was a prophetic vision of what will happen, rather than a literal truth of what was actually happening right that moment. I mean, dragons are large and obvious, and if one had just escaped from beneath Winterfell, there should be some physical evidence left from its departure. And although the castle was sacked and burned, there were still people nearby. Why wouldn't Maester Luwin say anything if there had been a dragon making a break for it? I know he's dying, but that seems like a huge thing to miss. Or Ramsay's men, provided they're still close by.

So, I think the dragon refers to what will be there in the future. This could take on many forms--like, in the future a dragon hatches beneath Winterfell, Dany comes to visit, it's a metaphorical representation of Jon accepting his heritage, etc.

[Lord Varys]

That depends. Ned's children are still children, and Ned was not exactly open-handed with his secrets. Not to mention all that troubles the Starks had with the succession from brother to brother and such in recent years. A lot of stuff would have been misplaced.

If a dragon egg hatched during the burning of Winterfell it was not in the crypts, as Bran and his companions were there at that time, and would have witnessed such an event.

[HexMachina]

That depends. Ned's children are still children, and Ned was not exactly open-handed with his secrets. Not to mention all that troubles the Starks had with the succession from brother to brother and such in recent years. A lot of stuff would have been misplaced.

If a dragon egg hatched during the burning of Winterfell it was not in the crypts, as Bran and his companions were there at that time, and would have witnessed such an event.

But Winterfell was sacked by Ramsay's men, surely they would have noticed Dragon eggs, or a newly hathed dragon? And what of the Ironborn who were there beforehand? You don't think they looted from the castle at all?

I find it difficult to see how any dragon eggs or.newly hatched dragons would go unnoticed, personally.

[intheswamp]

Maybe Jace knocked up, or at least slept with, some women while visiting Winterfell and Mushroom was using the clutch of eggs as a metaphor.

I think Jon is the "Dragon in Winterfell".

[Mithras]

In addition to there is absolutely no reliable information about a literal dragon in Winterfell, introducing such a dragon would betray the story completely; starting with the last sentence of AGoT.

The Others made appearance in the Prologue and in the last chapter of AGoT, dragons came alive. Dany's dragons (at least one of them) has to come to the Wall. The entire point of Dany's arc is that how she and her dragons will come to Westeros. Why in the hell George should pull a dragon from thin air and give it to Jon?

Deny it as you may, Jon will get a dragon when Dany challenges him to prove his heritage by riding Drogon, which will be the last dragon remaining alive.

[Legion13]

It won't be Drogon. Dany has ridden him and dragons only have one rider until that dragonriders death. It is known.

[Mithras]

It won't be Drogon. Dany has ridden him and dragons only have one rider until that dragonriders death. It is known.

There are many things happening for the first time in the known history of Planetos.

[Colonel Green]

It won't be Drogon. Dany has ridden him and dragons only have one rider until that dragonriders death. It is known.

Where have we heard about dragons having only one rider? We know that riders can only have one living dragon, but I don't believe anything about the opposite scenario has been said.

[ChillyPolly]

In addition to there is absolutely no reliable information about a literal dragon in Winterfell, introducing such a dragon would betray the story completely; starting with the last sentence of AGoT.

I don't know what else you have in mind, but the last sentence in AGOT is easily overcome by remembering that the Chapter is written from from Dany's POV and reflects her beliefs. Otherwise, I can disprove R+L=J by reminding you of statements made about Jon's heritage in Catelyn's chapters.

Dany's dragons (at least one of them) has to come to the Wall. The entire point of Dany's arc is that how she and her dragons will come to Westeros. Why in the hell George should pull a dragon from thin air and give it to Jon?

Deny it as you may, Jon will get a dragon when Dany challenges him to prove his heritage by riding Drogon, which will be the last dragon remaining alive.

Well, we don't have any "reliable" information about any of this either. You are simply trying to disprove the theories of others by saying they contradict theories of your own. We will not know the "entire point of Dany's arc" until we see how her story ends.

[ChillyPolly]

One place I have always suspected a dragon might hide (though not the Dragon of Winterfell, particularly) is the Isle of Faces. This is a big island; and covered in forest. My rough guess would be that it is about 30 miles long and 10 miles wide, and well over 30 miles from any point to the nearest mainland lakeshore.

TWOIAF deepened these suspicions. Apparently, there is no real record of anyone from the mainland ever visiting the Isle of Faces for the last 300 years, if not longer. It's a big fat mystery.

[Colonel Green]

I don't know what else you have in mind, but the last sentence in AGOT is easily overcome by remembering that the Chapter is written from from Dany's POV and reflects her beliefs. Otherwise, I can disprove R+L=J by reminding you of statements made about Jon's heritage in Catelyn's chapters.

Not the same. The return of the dragons augurs the return of magic in general. If there were still other dragons hanging around, that impact doesn't really make much sense.

[Lord Varys]

It would be a nice and unexpected twist to give Jon Snow another dragon, not one of Dany's. After all, there is a very, very good chance that neither Dany nor any of her dragons will arrive in Westeros, let alone the Wall, in TWoW.

No one has ever said that only three dragon eggs can hatch, and having Jon to claim a dragon who secretly hatched - at Winterfell, of all places - would greatly mirror the whole 'hidden dragon' theme, don't you think?

Especially considering the fact that one small dragon may not be enough against the Others. The idea that Jon's heritage will be revealed, let alone be 'conclusively proven' by the mad ravings of some filthy bog devil or by the ramblings of some boy talking through raven and, possibly, trees, is a pretty big stretch. This stuff can be ignored/would not make a difference - after all, who should care about Jon's blood, his heritage, or his claim during the war against the Others. On the other hand, if his heritage is sort of hinted at/revealed when he becomes a dragonrider it would most certainly make a difference. Both 'savior-wise', and, possibly, politically, too.

The idea that George would give Dany's dragon(s) just some in-between riders as a (dreadful) plot device to get them to Westeros so that they can die and Jon claim the dragon makes for a very boring narrative, if you ask me...

Not to mention that there is a chance for a pretty big 'second Dance of the Dragons' if there are only three dragons.

[ChillyPolly]

Not the same. The return of the dragons augurs the return of magic in general. If there were still other dragons hanging around, that impact doesn't really make much sense.

Now you're just throwing another theory at me. Yes, there is some ambiguous evidence for this. Yes, Dany's informants are eager to convince her that the world really does revolve around Dany. But no, there is no particular reason we should accept this as the Word of God Almighty. This is, after all, more or less the same sort of thing that happens with Stannis, through his informants and advisors (such as Mel).

[Colonel Green]

Now you're just throwing another theory at me. Yes, there is some ambiguous evidence for this. Yes, Dany's informants are eager to convince her that the world really does revolve around Dany. But no, there is no particular reason we should accept this as the Word of God Almighty. This is, after all, more or less the same sort of thing that happens with Stannis, through his informants and advisors (such as Mel).

It's not simply Dany. The relighting of the glass candles at the Citadel, most obviously. It makes no sense for there to have been other dragons around the whole time, let alone in Winterfell somehow.

[Steve Hill]

Maybe Dany's dragon eggs came from the crypts of Winterfell.

[ChillyPolly]

It's not simply Dany. The relighting of the glass candles at the Citadel, most obviously.

Yes, I know. But so what? I know that magic is on the upswing, and Dany seems to be a part of it. How does this prove that everything revolves around Dany? How does it prove that the glass candles are burning in honor of Dany (if that is what you are implying)?

It makes no sense for there to have been other dragons around the whole time, let alone in Winterfell somehow.

Sure it makes sense. The world is vast and unexplored. We are shown that dragon eggs can lay dormant for hundreds of years (at least) before hatching. The mere fact that Dany has 3 dragons proves that dragons are not really extinct after all ... and perhaps, never really were.

Megomanaical fantasies are common in fantasy, but there is nothing particularly "realistic" about them. A normal assessment of the laws of probability would suggest that if Dany just happen to have 3 dragons, they are probably not the only 3 dragons in the whole universe. Normal assessment the laws of probability is that what happened to Dany may hapen to others. Yes, perhaps Dany really is the most ultra-ultra special girl in the whole universe; and yes, perhaps letting anyone else have any dragons would be an enormous blow to her overblown ego. But that has nothing to dow with realism. Realism would suggest that 99.9999% of those girls who think they are the most ultra-special girl in the whole universe are dead wrong.