[TWOIAF Spoilers] Unbroken line of male succession

[Lord Stark]

Harry is an Arryn through his mothers line.

Harry is named Hardyng.

Harry is still heir to Robert Arryn despite being a Hardyng.

No one is saying that Robert isn't possibly an Arryn because his name is Hardyng.

They are going by his blood, not his name.

Even if he stayed a Hardyng, he would still be inheriting through the Arryn Line.

He inherits because he is of the same family as Robert.

Simple enough. Now, we were comparing it to the Baratheons. Lets use Davos Baratheon in Harry's place here.

Davos is a Durrandon through his mothers line.

Davos is named Baratheon

Davos is still heir to Argilac despite being a Baratheon.

People are saying that Davos isnt possibly a Durrandon because is name is Baratheon

They are going by his name, not his blood

He stays a Baratheon but he is still inheriting the claim of the Storm Kings through the Durrandon Line.

He inherits the claim because he is of the same family as Argilac.

Yes you are correct, and yet wrong. The point you are missing is that House Durrandon is dead, and the claim to the Stormlands and Storm's End is not through the Durrandons, but through Orys. House Durrandon lost all claim. Orys became the rightful ruler in the eyes of Aegon. So while Davos has the same bloodline as the old Durrandon Kings, he belongs to House Baratheon because that is the house with the rightful claim, and who one must trace their bloodline back to. The Durrandon bloodline is just added prestige, and was likely just used to secure the Baratheon hold on their new lands, but if Orys had married any other woman, common, noble, storm lander, or northerner, he would still be the ruler of the Stormlands.

Harry the heir has a claim based on Arryns claim, and as such it makes sense to change his name, not just because he is of Arryn bloodline, but because it is Arryn lands he is claiming, and being known as an Arryn can help in securing his hold over those who might see him as an upstart of minor nobility, because of his name, or such.

Could a Baratheon change their house name to Durrandon? Sure, why not, they have the correct bloodline through the female line, but that change wouldn't gain them anything. When Orys was granted the Stormlands, house Durrandon lost all political power, and so there was no need to keep the name or house, and so It died. The bloodline might be around, but the house is dead, and has been for 300 years.

[glamourweaver]

Many people in the forum think that the Houses as we know cannot survive with unbroken line of male succession over so many millennia. Therefore, there should be cases in which the children of a female Lady should take her own surname to carry on the family name.

Yet, we fail to see any example of such in the family trees presented in the appendix. They cover up 300 years for Targaryens, around 200 years for Starks and 140 years for Lannisters.

Of course Dorne is an exception but even in Dorne, George said that few stony Dornishmen Houses follow the Andal inheritance.

What do you think? Are unbroken male lines of several thousand years possible in Westeros? How about taking the surname of mother or a maternal grandmother in the case of Harry the Heir? Do you think it is possible?

Well we KNOW there have been ruling Martel Princesses who passed on the seat to their own children, and the family ruling Sunspear remained Martells, so clearly at least in Dorne women can keep and pass on their own surname to their inheriting children.

The family trees in TWoI&F only goes back to the Conquest, not thousands of years. I can't believe that in the thousands of years since Brandon Builder there has never been a daughter as first in line to inherit Winterfell. Sometimes of course cadet-branch marriage would resolve the problem, but othertimes I'm willing to believe the son of an inheriting "Lady of Winterfell" would take the name Stark, even if his father was a Mormont or Glover. Those who didn't might have difficulty ruling.

Of course the Boltons likely don't intend the same in the present, but that's because they have their own closely held historic royal-claim to assert.

[Lady Barbrey]

I agree that in big name houses it was more likely to happen. The traditions in England are sometimes quite arbitrary, I.e not always hard rules, when a lady of stature inherits. However, if her husband had a lower title she often didn't change her last name to his and he changed his to hers. It was often part of a contract.

Sometimes though it wasn't even a greater title but just an exchange. When Lord Byron married Annabella Milbanke, he became Byron-Noel, which wasn't even her name but her uncle's wanting to keep the name alive and in exchange he made Byron and Annabella his heirs.

[glamourweaver]

No, it was because a heir of Casterly Rock was a woman, it was not a conquest. These things when a woman becomes a heir happen all the time, because a daughter>uncle. When a daughter inherits, her children get her surname. For example Lady's Hornwood heir was either a bastard or her nephew (who was Manderly, if I remember, or Glover). That nephew would thus take Hornwood surname.

Worth noting that those situations can easily be exploited if there's a strong cadet branch of the family that can trace a longer male-line - since Westeros (outside of Dorne at least) put so much value on father inherited family identity over the mother.

Were Tommen not king (though his "father" still dead, and his uncles still out of the inheritance), I would very easily imagine many of the Lannister cadet branches grumbling over the Baratheon Lord to Stormsend being heir to the Rock as well, and it might be most politic in that circumstance for Cersei to name someone born with the lastname Lannister her heir to the Rock, since Tommen would be getting Stormsend anyway.

As Tommen's King though, they're more likely to name Lannister stewards for a while and see if he has a third son (the first to the take Dragonstone & eventually the Iron Throne, the second Stormsend, the third Casterly Rock and the name Lannister instead of Baratheon - probably marrying the daughter of the Lannister steward of the Rock).

[belladeuil]

When Elizabeth of York married Henry Tudor (who killed her male relatives), her children inherited her claim but became Tudors. Therefore, her dynasty, the Plantagenets, became extinct. Henry Tudor claimed the throne of England through right of conquest but married the heiress of the previous dynasty to secure his hold on the Iron Throne. Likewise, when Argella Durrandon married Orys Baratheon (who killed her male relatives), her children became Baratheons. Therefore, her house, the Durrandons, became extinct. Orys Baratheon's claim to Storm's End derives from Aegon the Conqueror giving it to him but he married Argella to secure his hold on Storm's End.

The children of Elizabeth II and Prince Philip took Elizabeth II's house. Therefore, the House of Windsor will be continued by Elizabeth II's Windsor children. The children of the Lannister heiress and Joffrey Lydden took their mother's house. Therefore, House Lannister continued through her Lannister children. As a result, neither the House of Windsor nor House Lannister are extinct.

A house isn't judged to be extinct if the male line dies. A house is judged to be extinct if there is no one alive, through either the male or female line, who belongs to the house (has the house name, sigil and words). Since children have a tendency to take the father's name, sigil and words, a house will often die out if the male line dies as well.

[belladeuil]

Assuming the prophecy isn't true and Cersei Lannister and her remaining children live into adulthood, it is a possibility for Myrcella Baratheon to be named heir to Casterly Rock and take the Lannister name. Tommen Baratheon has to continue the Baratheon line as king and is already well provided for with the Iron Throne and Storm's End and I doubt the proud Lannisters want a Baratheon ruling over their seat (even if the Baratheon is full Lannister). Furthermore, Cersei is Lady of Casterly Rock. She will have at least some say in who her heir is, especially if she does not have a Lannister son, and I I doubt Cersei Lannister wants Margaery Tyrell's child as her heir. If anyone was going to defend a female right to inherit Casterly Rock, it will be Cersei.