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Galactus

Requires only that you continue to read this thread: Benjanungate II

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Continued from before:






I also don't think it's much of a coincidence that, on the blog itself, she seemed to target white men, often already-established authors that it would be difficult to characterise in any sense as a victim or underdog, in a much greater proportion than she seems to have done in any other form including in more private settings as RH, where her victims appear to be in great numbers the sorts of people the actual blog purports to be standing up for. I think it's that which has led to the 'punching up' narrative, far more than any actual vagueness in the term.


Actually, even on the ROH blog people often thought she went after women/non-europeans a fair bit more than was warranted, IIRC her response (when she didn't just insult people) was something along the lines of that being more neccessary in order to expose the flaws of would-be allies, or something.



The point where people really questioned it was when she laid into a... fanfic writer? Or just self-published? And even her minions were like "Dude, too much."




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She was always a troll. Sometimes it was quite funny, and she was the first person I had encountered that did critical analysis and discussion based on ethnic stereotypes.

That said she was fairly horrible at the best of times. I also had no idea how insanely bad she appears to be. Just horrible.

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I think that's a running theme for those who did find something worthwhile in some of her reviews (not all of them were trollbait, although a fair many were). I had stopped paying attention for the most part (unless she linked to my blog, which she did on occasion, but not out of spite, oddly enough) by mid-2012, so I missed most, if not all, of the worst abuses on Twitter. Having read those accounts, even if I were dismiss some as being biased accounts, what remains is really troubling.



I hadn't planned on saying anything else on the topic, since I'd rather forget that I even linked to her blog on occasion 2-3 years ago, but I will note this: there are some interesting power dynamics just now being revealed. I suspect the damage will go beyond the BS persona and envelop certain others just now being named.


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Troubling is a mild way to put it, yes. It's a bit(to me anyway) like finding out that the kid who used to call you names at recess has been killing people and keeping them in the basement.

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I suspect the damage will go beyond the BS persona and envelop certain others just now being named.

?

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On the plus side, the whole thing has proven a very useful asshole-meter. A whole bunch of people in genre/fandom who I either knew nothing about or knew of only peripherally demonstrated their relative levels of assholism for all to see by their attitude to/support for RH. Now I don't have to waste any of my precious time getting to know any those people any better.



Conversely, it also wised me up to some smart and humane faces in genre I'd otherwise probably have missed, if they hadn't chosen to take issue against the lockstep correct-thought bullying that arose.



Silver linings, eh........


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?

Macfarlane and Truslow for starters. There also seem to be those who are going to be snubbed by others for bringing up certain issues regarding WoC/PoC vs. (white) men/women. Can't say that SF/F magazine publishing isn't threatened by some of these apparent fault lines, so the carnage might be greater than those already named in those online entries.

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On the plus side, the whole thing has proven a very useful asshole-meter. A whole bunch of people in genre/fandom who I either knew nothing about or knew of only peripherally demonstrated their relative levels of assholism for all to see by their attitude to/support for RH. Now I don't have to waste any of my precious time getting to know any those people any better.

Conversely, it also wised me up to some smart and humane faces in genre I'd otherwise probably have missed, if they hadn't chosen to take issue against the lockstep correct-thought bullying that arose.

Silver linings, eh........

I have already purchased three books by authors she attacked viciously and plan to get more, so, yay?

Edit: who's truslow?

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I think that's a running theme for those who did find something worthwhile in some of her reviews (not all of them were trollbait, although a fair many were). I had stopped paying attention for the most part (unless she linked to my blog, which she did on occasion, but not out of spite, oddly enough) by mid-2012, so I missed most, if not all, of the worst abuses on Twitter. Having read those accounts, even if I were dismiss some as being biased accounts, what remains is really troubling.

I hadn't planned on saying anything else on the topic, since I'd rather forget that I even linked to her blog on occasion 2-3 years ago, but I will note this: there are some interesting power dynamics just now being revealed. I suspect the damage will go beyond the BS persona and envelop certain others just now being named.

I seem to remember you two being quite chummy. When a reader of your blog posted on your comments:

From a fellow Tennessean, your support for a blog titled "Requires only that you Hate" is very, very disturbing. I won't be reading your blog anymore.

And Requires Hate replied:

May the door crush your balls to a pulp on the way out, I believe it's steel-reinforced.

You were quick to agree, saying just: A bit blunter than I would have put it

And as I recall there was a fair bit of yukking it up with her and her hit squad on twitter.

To my mind she was a guilty pleasure for a certain portion of the blogosphere, many of whom stepped a lot further over the line than they might like to admit.

The notion that it was all somehow 'in a good cause' seems to have been taken by many as carte blanche for pretty shabby behaviour.

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Yes, and that was before I realized what was transpiring in Twitter comments. I also dropped that blog and all well over a year ago. I'm mostly silent on this because of chagrin upon realizing people were actually being threatened and not in the obviously over-the-top fashion common to certain gaming site-style acerbic reviews that I presumed she was operating in.



People do, after all, change their views and become uneasy and then perhaps a bit revolted upon further evidence. That is what happened. What seemed to be harsh but non-serious became something else when I saw what others had to say. So I dropped her before the worst of the abuse came to light.


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I read many of her reviews and I definitely thought there was merit in some of her points. For example, I really enjoyed Wind up Girl, and reading her review hit me hard because it made me think on different lines (as a Paki woman, I know too well what a complex relationship one can have with white/priviledged/former colonialists). I even agreed with her premise that sometimes POC need to be loud and belligerent to make their point to 'priviledged' people.



But this is inexcusable and utterly beyond the pale. Threats, distortion, lies, and flat-out attempts to sabotage careers? No.


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I read many of her reviews and I definitely thought there was merit in some of her points. For example, I really enjoyed Wind up Girl, and reading her review hit me hard because it made me think on different lines (as a Paki woman, I know too well what a complex relationship one can have with white/priviledged/former colonialists). I even agreed with her premise that sometimes POC need to be loud and belligerent to make their point to 'priviledged' people.

But this is inexcusable and utterly beyond the pale. Threats, distortion, lies, and flat-out attempts to sabotage careers? No.

Shockingly, we privileged folk can in engage in calm, rational, persuasive discussions as well. If this proves anything, loud and belligerent doesn't seem to be the way to go. And if anything, is counter productive.

As for Wind Up Girl, I've had the chance to meet the author once or twice, and he may be one of the nicest, warm, funny dudes I've met in the community. Her attacks on him and his work just came off as fucking silly, and did nothing… nothing to change my opinion on the topic.

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I don't think being loud and belligerent is counterproductive per se. It just can't be the only voice. Reasonableness works with some people. Rage works better with others.

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It can also work for people who think that they are reasonable and thus are set in their thinking. It is a kind of wake up that maybe things aren't quite so rosy.

The ferguson rioting is a good example of where belligerence and rage has fueled a lot of debate that probably would not have happened if everyone was totally chill about it.

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Shockingly, we privileged folk can in engage in calm, rational, persuasive discussions as well. If this proves anything, loud and belligerent doesn't seem to be the way to go. And if anything, is counter productive.

As for Wind Up Girl, I've had the chance to meet the author once or twice, and he may be one of the nicest, warm, funny dudes I've met in the community. Her attacks on him and his work just came off as fucking silly, and did nothing… nothing to change my opinion on the topic.

Yes. I have had many rational, polite discussions with priviledged people, online and in person. Never said that wasn't the case/possible.

Re Wind up Girl's author, I don't know anything about him. My comment was specifically about the book, not him. And my point was that reading about your country/culture from the perspective of a priviledged author can often be a complicated experience, something her review highlighted for me. It's akin to watching the latest season of Homeland, for example, which is set in my city, and taking issue with certain aspects of the portrayal.

I'd also second Social Justice Darkstar, in that a strong tone can sometimes be effective in bringing attention to stuff one may have been oblivious to. That certainly doesn't mean being constantly belligerent/attacking, as she was.

That's all I meant. I find her behaviour appalling, as stated in my last post.

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Eh, as a tactic. Maybe. As a general, overall strategy? Pfft. If, if, this prevarication is actually accurate in regard to BS, then clearly she isn't even half as smart as some people commenting on this subject seem to think.

Mmn... maybe that isn't entirely fair. An argument could be made between intelligence and wisdom, I suppose, but I'll leave it as is.

Moving on--

I've not read Wind Up Girl. Did BS actually illustrate gaping errors on the author's part insofar as portrayal or was she just lambasting because some non-POC had the temerity to write that PoV?

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I don't think being loud and belligerent is counterproductive per se. It just can't be the only voice. Reasonableness works with some people. Rage works better with others.

Rage and vitriol convince no one to change sides. Maybe not no one, but, to paraphrase Happy Ent, rounded to the nearest percent, the proportion is 0%.

It can rally your supporters, but even that can be counterproductive. Calmness, reason, charity (as in not automatically believing in the worst of other), politeness and kindness are the principles that societies are built on. Especially cosmopolitan societies built from people of varying beliefs and cultural backgrounds. When you allow people to disregard those principles if you feel like they are "on the right side" or "making a good point," then you not only become vulnerable to manipulative psychopaths like RH, but also to vicious fractures and schisms among otherwise well-meaning former allies.

This is honestly a lesson progressives and revolutionaries should have learned after 1794.

The ferguson rioting is a good example of where belligerence and rage has fueled a lot of debate that probably would not have happened if everyone was totally chill about it.

Only among those already inclined to agree with progressives.

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I've not read Wind Up Girl. Did BS actually illustrate gaping errors on the author's part insofar as portrayal or was she just lambasting because some non-POC had the temerity to write that PoV?

Impossible to tell - the vitriol obliterated any chance of an objective assessment. Like taking an RPG to a car, and then trying to work out from the twisted, flaming wreckage whether the car was, in fact, breaking the speed limit as claimed.

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