No children in Asshai

[SeanF]

If babies are not born in Asshai,where the hell is Melisandre of "Asshai" from?Was she born somewhere else and was sold as slave in Asshai? :dunno:

She studied at Asshai. But before that, she was sold to the Great Temple at Volantis. My view is that she was initially trained as a temple prostitute, before graduating to the priesthood, and was then sent by her order to study magic at Asshai.

[herzog horse]

No children at castle black either. Could Asshai be some kind of barrier to whatever lies within the shadow?

[RumHam]

No children at castle black either. Could Asshai be some kind of barrier to whatever lies within the shadow?

Uh, there are children at Castle Black. Gilly's and Mance's kids. Plus it seems they are willing to raise infant boys as men of the watch:

“All the rangers [know what Craster is doing],” Mormont repeated. “You think I ought to stop him. Kill him if need be.” The Old Bear sighed. “Were it only that he wished to rid himself of some mouths, I’d gladly send Yoren or Conwys to collect the boys. We could raise them to the black and the Watch would be that much the stronger.

[yolkboy]

She studied at Asshai. But before that, she was sold to the Great Temple at Volantis. My view is that she was initially trained as a temple prostitute, before graduating to the priesthood, and was then sent by her order to study magic at Asshai.

Lys also has a 'Great Red Temple' (Salladhor Saan says in CoK). We know Mel's from a 'great' red temple, so it's a choice between the two. I don't think we should be defaulting to Volantis just because we've spent time there. After all, there were no mentions of Mel, and no fiery heart sigil in sight. Also Mel is sure of being the best flame reader in her order - Moqorro is clearly more advanced, she just doesnt seem to fit.

Altogether, there's plenty of reasons to think Mel has no connection with Volantis - and the very briefly mentioned temple on Lys should be considered.

[protar]

Uh, there are children at Castle Black. Gilly's and Mance's kids. Plus it seems they are willing to raise infant boys as men of the watch:

But that isn't the usual state of things.

[Bluetiger]

But no children are born or concived in Castle Black.

[RumHam]

But that isn't the usual state of things.

I don't think it's that unusual that they would have some young orphan boys there training to be men of the watch. Aren't Lommy and Hot Pie children?

But no children are born or concived in Castle Black.

Right, but there are sometimes children living there. Unlike Asshai apparently.

[protar]

I don't think it's that unusual that they would have some young orphan boys there training to be men of the watch. Aren't Lommy and Hot Pie children?

That's kind of just speculation on your part. We know Mance was raised by the Watch, and we know Lommy and Hot Pie were going there, but they were in their teens - almost men by Westerosi standards.

Of course personally I think the real reason that there are no children in Asshai is because it's not actually a city where people live. It's a place where people go to study sorcery and stuff.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

That's kind of just speculation on your part. We know Mance was raised by the Watch, and we know Lommy and Hot Pie were going there, but they were in their teens - almost men by Westerosi standards.

Of course personally I think the real reason that there are no children in Asshai is because it's not actually a city where people live. It's a place where people go to study sorcery and stuff.

Nah. They are still children in Westerosi standarts. They need to be sixteen.

I think "there is no children because its where people go to study magic" is a less creepy and simple answer for that question.

I believe there are native Asshai'i in that city, Oldtown is where people go to study science but it has it's own native people.

I think Asshai'i keep their children at home until they are grown enough. (I know this simplier than "magic university city" answer but...)

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Lys also has a 'Great Red Temple' (Salladhor Saan says in CoK). We know Mel's from a 'great' red temple, so it's a choice between the two. I don't think we should be defaulting to Volantis just because we've spent time there. After all, there were no mentions of Mel, and no fiery heart sigil in sight. Also Mel is sure of being the best flame reader in her order - Moqorro is clearly more advanced, she just doesnt seem to fit.

Altogether, there's plenty of reasons to think Mel has no connection with Volantis - and the very briefly mentioned temple on Lys should be considered.

"Her tears were flames."

Tears--> slave prostitues

Flames--> red priests and priestesses

Flame tears--> temple prostitue? makes sense imo

She also said she knows how to give pleasure to a man. (to Davos in ACoK)

We learned that Melisandre was a slave in the same book where we've seen the Great Red Temple. Coincidence? I think not!

Don't know why should we even consider Lys when we have plenty of reasons that leads to Volantis.

[Aquamarine]

For me it sounds like radioactive place. Maybe it's with magic or something, and children are born deformed and prone to illness. Or maybe it is that magiic in place isn't stable and that new life attach magic just like Gilly's newborn attracted Others. Other are some kind of magic to, or they are at least really connected with it. So, just like, a lot of magic is unbound and in the air (I think that spells are used to bound the magic) and newborn children just absorb it and of course it's that a bit overwhelming. It's mentioned that ever adult people who visit get sick, maybe every person attach magic, but children and animals are just more easily to be affected and it is deadlier for them. Only magical people are unaffected or are able to withhold magic that is lose in the air

[FittleLinger]

There's the theory about the oily/greasy black stone structures built by mermen/ 'deep ones', spread over Planetos (http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kn8vc/spoilers_woiaf_the_oily_black_stone_structures) that has basically been confirmed by Elio Garcia (http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kxjol/spoilers_woiaf_hey_anyone_who_owns_awoiaf_i_have/)

So at least in one of these places where there is an abundance of the black stone, Yeen, plants cannot grow.

No confirmation whether there are trees in Asshai or not, but if large quantities of the stone prevent living things from growing, perhaps it could be the reason why there are no children in Asshai.

I don't have the time to read through and fine the few comments that are actually spot on - can you point out to me as to what exactly Elio confirms? I mean I did see he kind of confirmed, I just can't read through the whole thing. What are the black stone structures and who are they connected with?

[Whitering]

Yes, put me on board with those that feel Asshai is, presently, more of a university than a real city.

[LmL]

Well if their people live forever and use their sexual organs to create smoke babies then that would pretty much explain it.

This made me laugh. And it's probably right.

[LmL]

I don't have the time to read through and fine the few comments that are actually spot on - can you point out to me as to what exactly Elio confirms? I mean I did see he kind of confirmed, I just can't read through the whole thing. What are the black stone structures and who are they connected with?

The only thing he confirmed is:

There's about two pages devoted to Asshai towards the end of the book, plus there are some earlier references. There may -- or may not -- be a subtle thread connecting Asshai to some quite different places, too.

Then someone asked for a link to the thread, thinking he was referring to a literal discussion thread. His answer:

Well, I meant a subtle thread running through the book... but there happens to be a thread here on Reddit that picked up on it and is discussing it.

He then links to this thread on reddit, which came out three months ago, i.e. right after the WOIAF came out. There are several ideas discussed, and I don't interpret his statements to confirm any of them, only that there was interesting stuff about Asshai being linked to the something (obviously the greasy bloodstone locations), and that it was being discussed on the internet. Elio wouldn't be confirming specific theories npbased in insider knowledge anyway, I am thinking.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kn8vc/spoilers_woiaf_the_oily_black_stone_structures/

[jmacdizzle]

There's the theory about the oily/greasy black stone structures built by mermen/ 'deep ones', spread over Planetos (http://www.reddit.co...tone_structures) that has basically been confirmed by Elio Garcia (http://www.reddit.co..._awoiaf_i_have/)

So at least in one of these places where there is an abundance of the black stone, Yeen, plants cannot grow.

No confirmation whether there are trees in Asshai or not, but if large quantities of the stone prevent living things from growing, perhaps it could be the reason why there are no children in Asshai.There's the theory about the oily/greasy black stone structures built by mermen/ 'deep ones', spread over Planetos (http://www.reddit.co...tone_structures) that has basically been confirmed by Elio Garcia (http://www.reddit.co..._awoiaf_i_have/)

So at least in one of these places where there is an abundance of the black stone, Yeen, plants cannot grow.

No confirmation whether there are trees in Asshai or not, but if large quantities of the stone prevent living things from growing, perhaps it could be the reason why there are no children in Asshai.

I don't have the time to read through and fine the few comments that are actually spot on - can you point out to me as to what exactly Elio confirms? I mean I did see he kind of confirmed, I just can't read through the whole thing. What are the black stone structures and who are they connected with?

ITS THE OILY STONE. ITS RADIOACTIVE. ITS OBVIOUS!!!!!!!!

[LmL]

Totally agree. It's obvious.

But again - only the oily black stone does this - not the "fused stone." The oily black stone is called Bloodstone (heliotrope). That's only at Asshai, Yeen, Isle of Toads, and the Seastone Chair. Oldtown Fortress is fused stone, and no adverse health effects. Same for the Five Forts. Fused stone is made with dragonflame. The bloodstone (at the least the one the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped) fell from the sky. And yes, it's clearly radioactive.

[Ziester]

Is that obvious? Radioactivity doesn't stop plants from growing unless there's a truly huge amount of radioactivity. But there are people living in Asshai and the Isle of Toads. Why weren't the Kings of the Iron Islands all infertile? It's fantasy not science fiction. There's probably a magical explanation like that the infertility in Asshai and lack of plants in Yeen are sideffects of Shadowbinder/Merling magic rather then the rocks themselves causing anything.

[Modesty Lannister]

I think people of Asshai are nemesis to the Others. They are never born. They are turned so that they can survive a hostile fire environment under the shadow just as the Others are turned so that they can survive the hostile environment of extreme cold. The Wall has been described almost like an organic thing - it sweats. The black stone used in Oldtown and on Iron Islands and Asshai is oily. I wouldn't be surprised if both materials actually trap living creatures inside. The Wall traps them with Ice while the black stone (petrified petroleum or lava?) traps them with fire. I wouldn't say any radioactivity is involved. Around Chernobil, nature looked quite normal, but everything was radioactive. Cattle did die, but plants thrived. Asshai looks like a big black oil field with the river of undistilled petroleum in the vicinity. Subsequently, I do not believe Mel is a Red Priestess at all. The Red Priesthood believes Dany is AA. Mel is like a fire Other. She is wearing glamour, so we have no idea how she really looks like. Nor we do have an idea how inhabitants of Asshai look like since they are covered. But, since Dany is bound to pass through Asshai, I am sure we will learn more.

[HexMachina]

Lys also has a 'Great Red Temple' (Salladhor Saan says in CoK). We know Mel's from a 'great' red temple, so it's a choice between the two. I don't think we should be defaulting to Volantis just because we've spent time there. After all, there were no mentions of Mel, and no fiery heart sigil in sight. Also Mel is sure of being the best flame reader in her order - Moqorro is clearly more advanced, she just doesnt seem to fit.

Altogether, there's plenty of reasons to think Mel has no connection with Volantis - and the very briefly mentioned temple on Lys should be considered.

she also never mentions the High Priest, which you would think she would if she had been in Volantis and seen him probably daily