Suzanna Stormborn Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Daenerys has the only known dragons, which is why they are so significant. This, however, does not preclude the existence of other dragons in the world that are unknown. The characters are saying that no one has seen a dragon for 150 years, not that they are extinct. :) Edit: There may even be known dragons in parts of the world we don't have information on. Come on now, there may be Sharknado's in part of the world too that we have never heard of, that is not a good argument, We are talking about the reality of the books based on what we know. If the arkenstone is sitting in a cave in Asshai and we never hear about it, then it is not relevant to asoiaf and did not really happen, GRRM has to write it to make it real in the case of something serious like this. "I will kill every Targaryen I get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves."--Bobby B. "They were the last of the Targaryen dragons, perhaps the last dragons anywhere, and they had not lived very long."--Tyrion "Dragons" Tyrion told him. "What good is that? there are no more dragons," "I seldom dream of dragons anymore, there are no more dragons." --Tyrion "Stone, she told herself. They are only stone, even Illyrio said so, the dragons are all dead." --Dany "Have you ever seen a dragon?" She asked Irri....... "Dragons are gone, Khaleesi" "Dead, Long and long ago"--Irri and Jhiqui to Dany. "Viserys had told her that the last dragon had died no more than a century and half ago, during the reign of Aegon III, who was called Dragonbane. "Everywhere?" she said, disappointed. "Even in the East?" "No Dragon, Brave men kill them, for dragon terrible evil beasts. It is known." "it is known." We also have Euron confirming they are all dead, I would think the word of him and Illyrio would be enough to satisfy anyone, clearly these 2 are world travelers with their fingers in a lot of pies. They know their shit. Just to name a few, these are examples from Westeros and ppl from the East, all agreeing the dragons are gone, dead, extinct. Now why would GRRm make all these people liars, as well as the last sentence of GOT as well as the fact that Dany miraculously brought them back to life? Someone has to give me even one reason he would undo all of his own writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I think the point of an omniscient POV is that it cannot be wrong...... That's how I always understood it to work since I learned the word in 6th grade. I agree about magic waxing and waning, that's exactly what I meant, sorry if I didnt word it correctly. So you think there are other dragons, despite the last sentence of GOT, but that we will never see them because the empires of the East (where Dany is, and where everyone is in serious awe of her 'only dragons in the world') are keeping them a secret? I don't understand this argument at all. If we never see or hear from any other dragons, and never hear of anyone who has seen one, as far as this story goes, they don't exist, and the writing has not been one long lie for 5 books.I think there's a lot to question and debate about the last chapter of AGOT. I've commented about this on the thread about the Red Priests. At first reading, it's great, righteous, triumphant. Dany burns her enemy alive, and emerges victorious from the flames, with three living dragons. The book ends on a high note.But, in retrospect, it's more troubling. Can human sacrifice ever be justified? Will the birth of dragons turn out well? Who was the aggressor between Dany and Mirri? Was Dany sacrificing to some malevolent entity? I'd say that very little that we read in this chapter can now be accepted at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I am quite certain of a shadow dragon that will be summoned by Mel to fight Dany's three. Other than that, I doubt we will see more dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I am quite certain of a shadow dragon that will be summoned by Mel to fight Dany's three. Other than that, I doubt we will see more dragons. I completely agree. Well, that's a first. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 George RR Marin I'm pretty certain he was talking about Dany's survival being the miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm pretty certain he was talking about Dany's survival being the miracle. No, he said the birth of her dragons was a wondrous, unique miracle. He was talking about both the birth and her surviving the pyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 GRRM himself said it was a miracle: George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold. I think GRRM is referring to her surviving the fire as a miracle that took place at the birth of her dragons. His emphasis is all on the immunity to fire, not the birth of dragons. Dragons have been born before -- it's no miracle (the miracle is Dany surviving the fire). It may seem that it is to those present, however, and thus is consistent with GRRM's answer. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRose1989 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 To the people who say there are wild dragons in the east, other than the fact that they must be invisible because nobody who has actually GONE east has seen them, what would be the point of having rando wild dragons frolicking away in the east out of sight of anyone? From a story telling standpoint, why would that be included in relevance to the story??As for ice dragons and shadow dragons...please. This isn't a year 7 English 'write your own story' project.Having all these elemental dragons floating around brings the maturity of the novels down to about 10-14 year olds in my opinion. Dany's dragons already have something to fight....might have heard of them coming down from the north? Chilly fellows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm pretty damn sure, based on Bran's vision, there are still dragons in Asshai or the Shadowlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 To the people who say there are wild dragons in the east, other than the fact that they must be invisible because nobody who has actually GONE east has seen them, what would be the point of having rando wild dragons frolicking away in the east out of sight of anyone? From a story telling standpoint, why would that be included in relevance to the story??As for ice dragons and shadow dragons...please. This isn't a year 7 English 'write your own story' project.Having all these elemental dragons floating around brings the maturity of the novels down to about 10-14 year olds in my opinion. Dany's dragons already have something to fight....might have heard of them coming down from the north? Chilly fellows...Bran could warg them. These "wild dragons" in Asshai were in his vision, after all. I agree with you about "ice dragons" and "shadow dragons" and "stone dragons." The only ice dragon is Jon Snow, and the only stone dragon is Shireen. Or perhaps Aegon, if he gets greyscale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I think GRRM is referring to her surviving the fire as a miracle that took place at the birth of her dragons. His emphasis is all on the immunity to fire, not the birth of dragons. Dragons have been born before -- it's no miracle (the miracle is Dany surviving the fire). It may seem that it is to those present, however, and thus is consistent with GRRM's answer. :) Did you even read that quote? There are two sentences the first refers to the birth of the dragons the second to her being unburnt. It says "The Birth of Dany's dragons was a unique, magical, wonderous, miracle" How could it be more plain than that? The birth of the Dragons was a miracle you literally just posted GRRM saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fauntleroy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Dragons don't seem migratory to me. The wild ones always stayed near their roost, even when disturbed repeatedly. My head cannon is that they were a native species to the volcanic region of Valyria, and the only ones to survive the Doom were the Targ dragons because they lived at the farthest branch of the empire. IIRC wasn't there some kind of dragonlord convention going on during the doom, which is why it killed all the other dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! [this is his point] The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. [the circumstances surrounding the event of the birth of the dragons was a miracle; the birth of the dragons isn't miraculous it is just used as shorthand for the event] She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold. [again, emphasizing the point of the comment] That's how I interpret it. But each to their own... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 The world book confirms (GRRM confirmed it long before) dragons lived all over the world. My theory is that they were all happy-go-lucky but then the Long Night happened and boom, dragons are dead, then Valyrians mated (via bloodmagic) wyverns with firewyrms to create new dragons. So, if the Long Night was a global event that even affected southern Sothoryos and Ulthos and all other lands beyond the maps, then yes. Dany's dragons are the last dragons of the world. Edit: I don't think dragons were the reason of magic's comeback. Bloodraven was still rotting in his cave, FM was chancing their faces, wargs were warging, maegies were still active as we've seen from Maggy the Frog. I think the red comet was the reason of fire magic's comeback. no? i think yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I am not saying that I think there will be other dragons appearing in the story -- ice-, sea-, or otherwise -- but the OP states that there are no other dragons, period. This is just not verifiable no matter how many characters you quote displaying their ignorance of dragons. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blow My Horn Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Who says we are dealing with a third person omniscient POV? Just because a bunch of characters in Westeros and Essos think dragons are extinct means nothing for the world at large. None of them have been to the Shadowlands. Euron is most certainly a liar regarding his travels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Who says we are dealing with a third party omniscient POV? Just because a bunch of characters in Westeros and Essos think dragons are extinct means nothing for the world at large. None of them have been to the Shadowlands.Euron is most certainly a liar regarding his travels.Except Quaithe and she would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Except Quaithe and she would know. Quaithe is not omniscient; she has an obsidian candle and can see the present. She may have seen things in the fire as well as a priestess of R'hllor, but she could be wrong, just like Melisandre. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blow My Horn Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Except Quaithe and she would know. Quaithe isn't proof of anything. At this point she could be Dany going schizo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Quaithe is not omniscient; she has an obsidian candle and can see the present. She may have seen things in the fire as well as a priestess of R'hllor, but she could be wrong, just like Melisandre. :) We don't know if she's a red priestess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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