Greatest commanders

[Colonel Green]

One of the things I really took away from TWOIAF is that Aegon the Conqueror was rather unimpressive as a grand strategist. At the end of the day, he had dragons, but he was emboldened by this to take unnecessary risks that took needless casualties (which ultimately didn't matter, again, but perhaps there's an AU where one of Argilac's archers shoots down Rhaenys or whatever). After landing and subduing the Crownlands, he split his forces in three pieces, when the Field of Fire would later show that concentration of dragonpower is the key to curbstomping victory, and it's not like his enemies pose so great a threat that he needs to strike them all at once.

Especially bizarre is sending Visenya and Lord Velaryon to attack Gulltown, a decision which ends up costing him his entire navy (because Visenya was apparently off twiddling her thumbs whilst the Arryns and the Velaryons fought a full-scale naval engagement, only to show up at the end to use her cheat codes to beat them anyway). What was the point of this thrust, even if it succeeded, when all that was actually needed was to send Visenya to the Eyrie (or, even better, for all three dragons to go)?

[Ramsay Gimp]

One of the things I really took away from TWOIAF is that Aegon the Conqueror was rather unimpressive as a grand strategist. At the end of the day, he had dragons, but he was emboldened by this to take unnecessary risks that took needless casualties (which ultimately didn't matter, again, but perhaps there's an AU where one of Argilac's archers shoots down Rhaenys or whatever). After landing and subduing the Crownlands, he split his forces in three pieces, when the Field of Fire would later show that concentration of dragonpower is the key to curbstomping victory, and it's not like his enemies pose so great a threat that he needs to strike them all at once.

Especially bizarre is sending Visenya and Lord Velaryon to attack Gulltown, a decision which ends up costing him his entire navy (because Visenya was apparently off twiddling her thumbs whilst the Arryns and the Velaryons fought a full-scale naval engagement, only to show up at the end to use her cheat codes to beat them anyway). What was the point of this thrust, even if it succeeded, when all that was actually needed was to send Visenya to the Eyrie (or, even better, for all three dragons to go)?

Yeah, going one at a time with all three dragons would probably have been more cost-effective than immediately splitting up. Maybe GRRM just wanted to depict some actual battles rather than a string of curb-stompings

[SeanF]

One of the things I really took away from TWOIAF is that Aegon the Conqueror was rather unimpressive as a grand strategist. At the end of the day, he had dragons, but he was emboldened by this to take unnecessary risks that took needless casualties (which ultimately didn't matter, again, but perhaps there's an AU where one of Argilac's archers shoots down Rhaenys or whatever). After landing and subduing the Crownlands, he split his forces in three pieces, when the Field of Fire would later show that concentration of dragonpower is the key to curbstomping victory, and it's not like his enemies pose so great a threat that he needs to strike them all at once.

Especially bizarre is sending Visenya and Lord Velaryon to attack Gulltown, a decision which ends up costing him his entire navy (because Visenya was apparently off twiddling her thumbs whilst the Arryns and the Velaryons fought a full-scale naval engagement, only to show up at the end to use her cheat codes to

beat them anyway). What was the point of this thrust, even if it succeeded, when all that was actually needed was to send Visenya to the Eyrie (or, even better, for all three dragons to go)?

He wasn't trying to obliterate his opponents, but rather to get them to surrender, pledge fealty, and switch sides. The circumstances of the Field of Fire were exceptional, as this was the biggest army ever assembled in Westeros.

[Colonel Green]

Yes, but even with that being the goal, splitting his forces was unnecessary.

[Narvi]

If The Battle of Fire goes well I'd have to say Barristan. He has set up kick ass plan with some iffy resources.

[Dimples]

If The Battle of Fire goes well I'd have to say Barristan. He has set up kick ass plan with some iffy resources.

His opposition is laughably bad, though. Being able to defeat the Yunkish with Unsullied is about as impressive as a grown man being able to squat 10 kg.

[Lee-Sensei]

@King Blackfyre There's no evidence that Ned and Jon devised all the tactics and stragetgies of the Rebellion. Anyways, there's not enough information to say.

[KingBlackfyre]

@King Blackfyre There's no evidence that Ned and Jon devised all the tactics and stragetgies of the Rebellion. Anyways, there's not enough information to say.

It was Jon's rebellion from the start so the initial battles in the vale must have been under him. Summer hall and ash ford were Robert while the bells was Ned and hoster. At the trident Ned provided the majority of the men and jon held seniority robert was just the figurehead providing the least men by far. It just makes more sense for him not to be the overall commander plus he was routed by tarly

[Lee-Sensei]

How did the Falcon Knight get lucky?

[Acnologia Targaryen]

One of the things I really took away from TWOIAF is that Aegon the Conqueror was rather unimpressive as a grand strategist. At the end of the day, he had dragons, but he was emboldened by this to take unnecessary risks that took needless casualties (which ultimately didn't matter, again, but perhaps there's an AU where one of Argilac's archers shoots down Rhaenys or whatever). After landing and subduing the Crownlands, he split his forces in three pieces, when the Field of Fire would later show that concentration of dragonpower is the key to curbstomping victory, and it's not like his enemies pose so great a threat that he needs to strike them all at once.

Especially bizarre is sending Visenya and Lord Velaryon to attack Gulltown, a decision which ends up costing him his entire navy (because Visenya was apparently off twiddling her thumbs whilst the Arryns and the Velaryons fought a full-scale naval engagement, only to show up at the end to use her cheat codes to beat them anyway). What was the point of this thrust, even if it succeeded, when all that was actually needed was to send Visenya to the Eyrie (or, even better, for all three dragons to go)?

Martin tried to make it look difficult man. Heck didn't the Valyrians fight the ghiscari in 5 wars before beating them and they had way more dragons.

[Talleyrand]

Martin tried to make it look difficult man. Heck didn't the Valyrians fight the ghiscari in 5 wars before beating them and they had way more dragons.

I think thats more just showing that the Valyrians and Ghiscari were Rome/Carthage expies with their 3 wars or showing that like Rome in the beginning the Valyrians weren't ones for direct occupation/conquering instead its more a beat your enemy and empose a harsh peace and each time the ghiscari rose up again they were beat back down

[Black Dragons]

Garin the Great who gave the people of Valyria pause

[Black Dragons]

99 battles against the Valerinas? where did you did hear that? I heard the this King of First Men (House Mudd) fought against Andals and won 99 battle and lost one, but NOT with Garin the Great he took down 3 dragons and then the Valerinas send 300 dragons.

[The silver dragon]

Garin the Great who gave the people of Valyria pause

information is a key to wining a war.

the fact that garin did not know Valyria had hundreds of dragons (something any trader in valyria could have told him by looking at the skies.)

shows some shit planing.

hell even Nymeria says that they would never be able to win, and Nymeria was no coward by any definition of the word.

[Pod The Rod]

information is a key to wining a war.

the fact that garin did not know Valyria had hundreds of dragons (something any trader in valyria could have told him by looking at the skies.)

shows some shit planing.

hell even Nymeria says that they would never be able to win, and Nymeria was no coward by any definition of the word.

You may not understand the true worth of plate armor, but you sir are completely correct here.

"They trembled, and then they killed him. If I led a quarter million people to their deaths, would I be Gerold the Great?"- Darkstar.

Garin, far from being the Great, is a strategic buffoon on par with Balon Greyjoy.

[Jon Fossoway]

I wouldn't count Stannis as a great field commander. He was tho a good naval one, considering he kicked the ironborn's butts in their own turf. I am currently rereading Dance and came across his initial decition of attacking Dreadfort with 400ish men while in the North. Jon suggests him to gain the Umbers and the northern clans. In that POV Jon is clearly a clever strategist than Stannis, at least, as I said, a field commander. Might be because he knows the North much more than Stannis, but the latter ignorance of the northmen players is almost absurd.

Randyll Tarly strikes to me as a solid strategist.

Roderick Dustin was insane, which is different.

[Nihlus]

Stannis wanted to assault the Dreadfort with 2,000+ men while it had a skeleton garrison. It wasn't actually a horrible plan, but it had numerous flaws (and would have failed even more catastrophically than those flaws would imply, due to treachery). Stannis realized this when it was pointed out to him and decided to change his course of action based on the advice of a competent commander from the area, an area he didn't know a whole lot about (because seriously, why would he need to have such in depth information about the northernmost parts of the North?). That's the mark of a good general, not a bad one. As for great "field" victories, he's probably about to get an amazing one against the Frey-Bolton-Karstark-Manderly force. His victory at the Wall is also very underrated, IMO.

Not to mention that medieval warfare was like 90% sieges anyway.

I know this kind of goes against the spirit of the thread, but I think Robb is highly overrated. His Green Fork/Whispering Wood strategy was, one, Blackfish's idea, and two, only possible because Tywin got in way over his head. Everything after that was child's play to any but the most incompetent of commanders. If anything, the fact that he still managed to lose ~1,500 of his best soldiers despite his overwhelming advantages in the subsequent engagements speaks poorly of him. This isn't even getting into his strategic blunders.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I wouldn't count Stannis as a great field commander. He was tho a good naval one, considering he kicked the ironborn's butts in their own turf. I am currently rereading Dance and came across his initial decition of attacking Dreadfort with 400ish men while in the North. Jon suggests him to gain the Umbers and the northern clans. In that POV Jon is clearly a clever strategist than Stannis, at least, as I said, a field commander. Might be because he knows the North much more than Stannis, but the latter ignorance of the northmen players is almost absurd.

Eh, I agree that Stannis can be overrated as a general by some posters but I think this is harsh. He would have had a couple thousand men, not 400, and attacking the Dreadfort was a good plan given what Stannis knew at the time. He wanted to strike the Boltons before they could consolidate power, and expose them as weak. Of course Roose was one step ahead of him, but that's because Roose is a boss :cool4:

And I don't think anyone in the South knows about the Mountain Clans. Stannis at least deserves credit for heeding Jon's advice.

[Lee-Sensei]

It was Jon's rebellion from the start so the initial battles in the vale must have been under him. Summer hall and ash ford were Robert while the bells was Ned and hoster. At the trident Ned provided the majority of the men and jon held seniority robert was just the figurehead providing the least men by far. It just makes more sense for him not to be the overall commander plus he was routed by tarly

I never even noticed this. Theres no evidence that the North provided the majority of troops for the Rebellion. Yes, they're the only one in the coalition that never had to deal with rebellious bannermen, but they're also really far away. They didn't march south with their full strength. Probably the same amount as Robb. Its also worth noting that Ned remembers Roberts commands winning the Trident.

And yes he lost to Tarly, but it was a minor inconclusive battle. Robert retreated in good order. We know what Jaime did in the same situation. He rushed in trying to kill as many people as possible, was taken hostageand had his army scattered. So the argument that Robert was just a brave fighter who let others think for him doesn't hold up.

[Jon Fossoway]

Stannis wanted to assault the Dreadfort with 2,000+ men while it had a skeleton garrison. It wasn't actually a horrible plan, but it had numerous flaws (and would have failed even more catastrophically than those flaws would imply, due to treachery). Stannis realized this when it was pointed out to him and decided to change his course of action based on the advice of a competent commander from the area, an area he didn't know a whole lot about (because seriously, why would he need to have such in depth information about the northernmost parts of the North?). That's the mark of a good general, not a bad one. As for great "field" victories, he's probably about to get an amazing one against the Frey-Bolton-Karstark-Manderly force. His victory at the Wall is also very underrated, IMO.

Not to mention that medieval warfare was like 90% sieges anyway.

I know this kind of goes against the spirit of the thread, but I think Robb is highly overrated. His Green Fork/Whispering Wood strategy was, one, Blackfish's idea, and two, only possible because Tywin got in way over his head. Everything after that was child's play to any but the most incompetent of commanders. If anything, the fact that he still managed to lose ~1,500 of his best soldiers despite his overwhelming advantages in the subsequent engagements speaks poorly of him. This isn't even getting into his strategic blunders.

I agree that he doesn't know about the northernmost part of the North, but this is the Dreadfort we are talking about, one of the strongest castles and seat of the main house in the area. Skeletal garrison or not it's still a hard bet. A minimum of background info failed there as well . It was good that he finally listened to a northener than his cocky Knights.