Queen.Sansa.Lannister Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Have we ever figured out why the Stark kids are all wargs anyways? Ned and Cat never displayed any such abilities. It gets even more questionable if you factor in R+L=J.I always thought it was because there were no direwolves around for Ned or his forebears to bond with. I think the dead mother direwolf would've bonded with Ned. And the Tullys have no history of warging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant of Tarth Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 We do. The dog with Marillion for example. I went looking for this. I'm not sure if I found what you are referring to. Is it the blind old dog? I didn't notice any warging. Can you please cite the chapter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant of Tarth Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Have we ever figured out why the Stark kids are all wargs anyways? Ned and Cat never displayed any such abilities. It gets even more questionable if you factor in R+L=J.I think I saw a thread on this topic on the World board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Have we ever figured out why the Stark kids are all wargs anyways? Ned and Cat never displayed any such abilities. It gets even more questionable if you factor in R+L=J. I always thought it was because there were no direwolves around for Ned or his forebears to bond with. I think the dead mother direwolf would've bonded with Ned.And the Tullys have no history of warging.Magic is returning to planetos. the skinchanging was probably present in past generations but never realized when magic waned. Now that it is back, their warging ability is back. Arya dreams of her wolf and has skinchanged a cat. Ned, if he had a pet would have been in a similar boat as his kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Maybe the wolf pack attacks Edmure's escort allowing him to escape? A lot of people think the BwB will intercept that escort but Jaime order the archers to kill Edmure if anyone attacks them. They won't kill him if it's Wolves attacking them. I don't know. Me thinks the pack won't intentionally attack Edmure. Even if they aren't afraid of men, that's some two hundred armed men we're talking about. And unless they pull something like Oxcross and send their horses trampling down on them, they'd get slaughtered. Also, why would they spare Edmure? Even if Arya is warging into Nymeria, she doesn't know Edmure. I think it's more likely that Nymeria meets Lady Stoneheart or Sansa (if she goes to the Riverlands) while Arya is warging her and the BWB or whoever Sansa is plotting with become "allies" of the wolf pack. I think it works better for the guerrilla tactics of the BWB. Arya and Sansa have unfinished business and the direwolf will make Sansa recognizable as a Stark, but I don't think their unfinished business can be finished while Arya can only act through Nymeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I don't know. Me thinks the pack won't intentionally attack Edmure. Even if they aren't afraid of men, that's some two hundred armed men we're talking about. And unless they pull something like Oxcross and send their horses trampling down on them, they'd get slaughtered. Also, why would they spare Edmure? Even if Arya is warging into Nymeria, she doesn't know Edmure. I think it's more likely that Nymeria meets Lady Stoneheart or Sansa (if she goes to the Riverlands) while Arya is warging her and the BWB or whoever Sansa is plotting with become "allies" of the wolf pack. I think it works better for the guerrilla tactics of the BWB. Arya and Sansa have unfinished business and the direwolf will make Sansa recognizable as a Stark, but I don't think their unfinished business can be finished while Arya can only act through Nymeria. I'm not suggesting that the wolves will eat everyone or take out the whole escort. But maybe in the confusion of numerous wolf attacks Edmure could get away. He's getting highborn treatment so he won't be chained. Maybe we could apply your idea of the BwB/wolf alliance to his escape. Using Wolves for the attack gets around the archers that are there to kill him in case of an attempted escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Starks Revenge Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm not suggesting that the wolves will eat everyone or take out the whole escort. But maybe in the confusion of numerous wolf attacks Edmure could get away. He's getting highborn treatment so he won't be chained. Maybe we could apply your idea of the BwB/wolf alliance to his escape. Using Wolves for the attack gets around the archers that are there to kill him in case of an attempted escape. He may not be chained but he would probably be restrained in some manner? He is an important hostage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 He may not be chained but he would probably be restrained in some manner? He is an important hostage. He's getting high born treatment which means he gets treatment according to his station. He's the former lord of Riverrun that precludes him from being chained up or caged or any other sort of physical restraint and marched through his own land. He will probably just be sitting on a wagon. Jaime order a group of archers to have arrows on him the whole time under orders to kill him if anyone tries to break him out. Any attempted escape leads to his death first that is all the the restraint needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The wolf pack is just another army waiting to be used. I think they will help clean up the Riverlands. Didn't Rhaegar Frey say Robb and his men turned into wolves? How perfect would it be if Nymeria's pack eliminated House Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 It was theorized that by the Mercy chapter Nymeria is in the North now. I wonder if the wall part is a clue. If she is Arya could do it in her dreams if Nymeria and the pack have something to do with the problems in the North. I don't think storming the Twins/a castle is a good idea. I noticed that repeatedly when the CoTF used hundreds of wolves against armored knights they got slaughtered. Nymeria wiping out the Freys isn't realistic. That's something an army must do and even then it might not be achieved. It would have to be like how Tywin enclosed everyone in the same spot so they all could die. ETA: The other option is the Others and wights passing the Twins to get to the Trident. Of course that also means they swept through the North before they got to the Freys. And yeah IA. She and the pack definitely would kill Edmure if she came across him. She's been killing the Tully's people so Edmure would not make a difference. Oh, and I doubt the pack's purpose is to meet other characters. Using the pack is so they can kill tons of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The warging has nothing to do with the dragons returning. Bloodraven was warging away 80 years before there were any dragons, as were the wargs north of the Wall. The Old Gods magic is not tied to the dragons. Dragons merely signal the rise of Fire Magic. And probably its opposite, Ice magic, too. But the Children's Earth magic never waned. At least, it only waned in relation to the number of weirwoods that were chopped down. But that decline stabilized thousands of years ago. The Old Gods magic is as powerful now as it was in Bloodraven's youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 It was theorized that by the Mercy chapter Nymeria is in the North now. I wonder if the wall part is a clue. If she is Arya could do it in her dreams if Nymeria and the pack have something to do with the problems in the North. I don't think storming the Twins/a castle is a good idea. I noticed that repeatedly when the CoTF used hundreds of wolves against armored knights they got slaughtered. Nymeria wiping out the Freys isn't realistic. That's something an army must do and even then it might not be achieved. It would have to be like how Tywin enclosed everyone in the same spot so they all could die. ETA: The other option is the Others and wights passing the Twins to get to the Trident. Of course that also means they swept through the North before they got to the Freys. And yeah IA. She and the pack definitely would kill Edmure if she came across him. She's been killing the Tully's people so Edmure would not make a difference. Oh, and I doubt the pack's purpose is to meet other characters. Using the pack is so they can kill tons of people. Where does that come from? I've never heard that before, CoTF commanding an army of wolves sounds amazing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Where does that come from? I've never heard that before, CoTF commanding an army of wolves sounds amazing though Spoiler "When the Andal king Erreg the Kinslayer surrounded the hill, the children emerged to defend it, calling down clouds of ravens and armies of wolves...Yet neither tooth nor talon was a match for the steel axes of the Andals, who slaughtered the greenseers, the beasts, and the First Men alike, and raised beside High Heart a hill of corpses half again as high..." There was another example somewhere too. Wolves and greenseers are still vulnerable. The Children still got their asses kicked despite using both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Spoiler "When the Andal king Erreg the Kinslayer surrounded the hill, the children emerged to defend it, calling down clouds of ravens and armies of wolves...Yet neither tooth nor talon was a match for the steel axes of the Andals, who slaughtered the greenseers, the beasts, and the First Men alike, and raised beside High Heart a hill of corpses half again as high..." There was another example somewhere too. Wolves and greenseers are still vulnerable. The Children still got their asses kicked despite using both. Awesome thanks for the info, I'm assuming that is from TWoIaF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Awesome thanks for the info, I'm assuming that is from TWoIaF? Yes. Anyways, I think whether or not Nymeria may have left for the North already she is destined to leave. Queen Nymeria's story-she's fleeing from Valyrians, gathers her people along the Rhoyne and leaves it to never return. Nymeria queen of her pack fled the Lannisters gathered her pack along the Trident. All she has to do is leave if she hasn't already. ETA: Even if some are hellbent on her killing Freys there are Freys in the North now so she could still kill some up there. But killing Ramsay makes for a much better story imo. He already did that Actaeon thing where Weese got killed by his own dog that he used to attack people. The hunter became the hunted. Ramsay and Arya would also be the only two who use packs of animals like that to murder. Ramsay should matter more to her than the Freys do. He is messing with her reputation and is using her claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ross Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I KNOW!!!! This forum is overlooking the second biggest Checkov's Gun in the book.I predict they will be integral to the battle of Winterfell.Imagine if Shaggydog becomes the Alpha over Nymeria and takes control of the pack, then leads them against Stannis' army as they breech the walls of Winterfell. Allowing Rickon to become the KITN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Spoiler "When the Andal king Erreg the Kinslayer surrounded the hill, the children emerged to defend it, calling down clouds of ravens and armies of wolves...Yet neither tooth nor talon was a match for the steel axes of the Andals, who slaughtered the greenseers, the beasts, and the First Men alike, and raised beside High Heart a hill of corpses half again as high..." There was another example somewhere too. Wolves and greenseers are still vulnerable. The Children still got their asses kicked despite using both. Part of me wonder if that's not just the Andals writing history as the victors. Much the same happens on the isle of the gods and no ones ever managed to get there and do anything. I'm not saying that the children didn't lose but that maybe there is more to it than the propaganda of people who are anti-magic might want us to believe. Maybe this new pack will demonstrate how it would have gone in reality with a more reliable POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Part of me wonder if that's not just the Andals writing history as the victors. Much the same happens on the isle of the gods and no ones ever managed to get there and do anything. I'm not saying that the children didn't lose but that maybe there is more to it than the propaganda of people who are anti-magic might want us to believe. Maybe this new pack will demonstrate how it would have gone in reality with a more reliable POV. The effects of the Children's loss is still there. The weirwoods were cut down and now they're only stumps. Leaf also told Bran that the original inhabitants of Westeros are all going to go extinct because in the world of man they both can't survive. And to be specific she did mention the Children and direwolves. ETA: Oh, and that's also where the Ghost of High Heart currently likes to reside. She is rumored to be a CoTF. The fanciful story was that the Children became ghosts after they were slaughtered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naseridrl Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I don't disagree that the children lost, I just mean I'm not so sure it was as simple as the book say. Especially given how anti-magic the book is, they aren't going to write about a hard won battle that could have gone either way etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 It happened more than once though. And we also have another case of the Starks SPOILER: fighting a Warg king and his inhuman allies who fought with beasts and greenseers. They lost then too. And the Starks married his daughters. I think it aligns with Leaf's belief that the direweolves will go extinct. IRL that's wolves greatest threat too. Humans. ETA: And that's probably how wolves learned to fear humans like they do IRL. Because humans had the tendency to kill them. Nymeria's pack were afraid of men without her. The direwolves moved North and the wolves learned to hide after the Andals started slaughtering them. I'm sure pre Andals their numbers were much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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