Sherlock

[red snow]

4 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

It was ok but nothing great. I love Gatiss and his Mycroft.

 

It's one thing that has improved as other elements become more ropey. I guess Gatiss likes the character and writes himself good scenes accordingly.

[polishgenius]

Well, I certainly had fun watching it, but all along there was a danger that the show was putting itself in places it couldn't sensibly resolve and that was the case here.
 

 

While I don't hate the idea that the whole thing was a grandiose cry for help from a grandiosely sick individual, the whole thing is hamstrung by how nonsensical, even by the standards of the show, the plane thing was. It just didn't play by the rules. I mean, my literal first thought was 'that's Euros in some way' and the way they'd go away for hours and the girl would still be waiting by the phone was proper suspect but other than that it handed over no clues and like people have said, Sherlock should have realised in seconds.

Also, the Moriarty thing just felt like a desperate attempt to somehow justify the 'I'm back' moment from what is now years ago that even Moffatt and Gattis realised couldn't possibly work. Apart from the amusing scene of him arriving at the prison, he added nothing of value, though the tie-back to their first encounter was kind of clever I guess.

However, I do disagree with all the people saying that this show was at its best when it was just them simply solving cases. The only episodes in which that was ever really true were A Study in Pink, which was good, The Power of Three which I liked but which got a mixed reception, and The Blind Banker and The Baskervilles ones, which were shite. Right from the beginning it's really been a show about mind vs mind (even Study in Pink was about that in the end), and in that respect, it did it well enough.

 

 

Euros, aka Terrifying River Tam (also, for the even more nerdy amongst us, rather reminiscent of TAO from Wildstorm), was a solid entry to the canon, and as I said the idea of it all just being a cry for help wasn't a bad one at heart. In fact looking back on it all the emotional games make more sense- it's not (just) torture, it's her deliberately picking at Sherlock's emotions because Sherlock's emotions are why she chose him, and not Mycroft, who would have solved any given puzzle much easier. And it was a far more original, and in many ways smarter, solution than just Sherlock bettering her, which (1) would have made no sense given the disparity in their powers and (2) would have pissed me off no end given the awful ending to the otherwise classic Scandal in Belgravia.

I just wish they'd have found a more convincing way to deliver it than that fucking plane.

[DaveSumm]

Quote

Sherlock should have realised in seconds

I think what bugged me was the way he opened with "is it night or day" and I thought we were in for a classic Sherlock deduction. Next question: which airport did you come from? Oh. Never mind.

Quote

However, I do disagree with all the people saying that this show was at its best when it was just them simply solving cases.

I'm not sure it was the 'solving cases' part, for me the last two seasons seem to feel the need to give Sherlock an emotional arc, when I'm not looking for Sherlock to really change much. He's carefully carved himself into a case-solving machine, rejecting extraneous information that doesn't contribute to that. I'm happy for Sherlock to be that, use those skills, and remain that at the end.

EDIT: sorry that's @polishgenius just couldn't be bothered tackling hidden quotes.

[dog-days]

22 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Spoiler

While I don't hate the idea that the whole thing was a grandiose cry for help from a grandiosely sick individual, the whole thing is hamstrung by how nonsensical, even by the standards of the show, the plane thing was. It just didn't play by the rules. I mean, my literal first thought was 'that's Euros in some way' and the way they'd go away for hours and the girl would still be waiting by the phone was proper suspect but other than that it handed over no clues and like people have said, Sherlock should have realised in seconds.

Also, the Moriarty thing just felt like a desperate attempt to somehow justify the 'I'm back' moment from what is now years ago that even Moffatt and Gattis realised couldn't possibly work. Apart from the amusing scene of him arriving at the prison, he added nothing of value, though the tie-back to their first encounter was kind of clever I guess.

However, I do disagree with all the people saying that this show was at its best when it was just them simply solving cases. The only episodes in which that was ever really true were A Study in Pink, which was good, The Power of Three which I liked but which got a mixed reception, and The Blind Banker and The Baskervilles ones, which were shite. Right from the beginning it's really been a show about mind vs mind (even Study in Pink was about that in the end), and in that respect, it did it well enough.

 

Spoiler

 

I suppose it depends on taste. I preferred the show when it was more: "We're a detective show! (_{But we're really about mind vs mind)}

 to what it is now which is:  

WE'RE ABOUT MIND VS MIND! AND BROMANCE! AND, LIKE, EMOTIONS! 

I mean, I watched this episode, and if wasn't entirely awful - there were a few really nice touches - but a lot of it was. Maybe awful in an entertaining way, but still awful. That explosion, for instance. The flashbacks to children on the beach. The long lost sister of a protagonist locked up on a rock in an insane asylum. The predictable which-one-will-you-shoot situations. It's the kind of thing where if it were a computer game, you'd say to yourself, "Wow, this isn't bad, they've really managed to make the facial animations naturalistic." Except it's a fairly high-budget TV drama with highly paid and ubiquitous writers, so I expect something a bit better. 

It had the flavour of a Victorian stage melodrama mixed with a comic book. I kept expecting the orchestra to strike up with a tune from a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta because it was the kind of thing Gilbert would have had fun parodying. Except that women tend to be stronger characters in G&S.

Summary: Liked the first two thirds of the first episode in this series because it didn't take itself too seriously. 

Liked the second episode, but would have liked it rather more if Watson and Holmes's bromance hadn't kept intruding, and if the final twist hadn't been the revelation of a secret relation. 

Watched the third episode. Bits were okay, but overall I'd rate it as the weakest of the three. 

 

 

[Ser Quork]

4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Dreadful final episode.

This series is becoming borderline unwatchable.

I thought the first few seasons were passable at best, didn't really love any episode, but it was ok.

But as pointed out above, nowadays it's all about getting into Sherlock's psyche, getting under his skin, trying to make it more and more personal by including his entire family etc.

Zero enjoyment.

I'm pretty much with you (as is the OH).  I thought the previous episode was overwrought and contrived, but this has to take the crown for that.  It's a shame but it's derailed from its very bright and clever original series.

[williamjm]

12 hours ago, red snow said:

 

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The concept was fun in a "crystal maze" way but it was a great example of how nonsensical the show can be.

 

Now that you've mentioned it, if I ever rewatch the episode I'm probably not going to be able to avoid hearing the Crystal Maze theme. They were missing a room where Sherlock, Mycroft and John have to balance on a rotating log for no good reason.

Also given the emphasis on Euros' ability to manipulate it seemed like a shocking missed opportunity to not have a single scene where Watson was behaving under her control. I mean he had a text affair with her for several weeks and there was no end-game there? Spent most of the episode waiting for a Watson betrayal moment.

I was expecting that as well. The therapy sessions would also have been a perfect opportunity for her to brainwash him.

Or are we supposed to believe Euros managed to secret the boy away from another location and then trow him in there without anyone noticing?

Did it ever confirm that Euros was responsible for the boy ending up in the well? I did wonder at the end if it had just been an accident but she had been blamed for it just because she knew what had happened.

[polishgenius]

It's never outright confirmed but the exchange that went Sherlock: "you killed my best friend" Euros, savagely: "I never

had a best friend". sounded to me like an admission.

[DaveSumm]

Quote

I was expecting that as well. The therapy sessions would also have been a perfect opportunity for her to brainwash him.

Which begs the question......what exactly was the point of the therapist cherade? To make a good twist, I guess. She certainly didn't need that info for any part of her plan.

[red snow]

20 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Which begs the question......what exactly was the point of the therapist cherade? To make a good twist, I guess. She certainly didn't need that info for any part of her plan.

or the affair. Maybe she just wanted a best friend.

I also like how people in the world of Sherlock all devote a lot of time to leaving lots of recordings for people to watch in the event of their death. I'm surprised there isn't a case of CDs with "when you're feeling x" on them.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Which begs the question......what exactly was the point of the therapist cherade? To make a good twist, I guess. She certainly didn't need that info for any part of her plan.

We're teetering between spoiler tags and no spoiler tags in here. My guess is someone should put "SPOILERS" in the thread title. Anyway, I'll ere on the side of caution...

My guess with the therapist...

Spoiler

....and "Girl on the Bus" routine was for Euros to do recon on John. Why is he truly Sherlock's best friend? How can she get Sherlock to love her the way he does him? That sort of thing.

 

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

  Hide contents

It's never outright confirmed but the exchange that went Sherlock: "you killed my best friend" Euros, savagely: "I never

had a best friend". sounded to me like an admission.

 

Yeah, to me it was no question she did it.

Spoiler

John said she could control people then I believe Sherlock corrected him by saying Euros has been "enslaving" people since she was five. My guess is convincing poor Trevor Redbeard to jump down the well was one of her first victims of such behavior. Possibly her only one before she was institutionalized. 

[kairparavel]

I didn't hate it but I didn't love it. That's my feeling for the season.

I'm on board with others about 

Spoiler

the plane sequence. Just, silly. And how did Euros manage to get around SO much during that episode. Or was she in the old house the entire time after they woke up in the cell with the prison governor. And she just had the three brothers in the ;prison awaiting the day Sherlock and friends made it to the island?

But, I did enjoy so so much

Spoiler

Moriarty listening to Queen. I did a fist pump when he stepped off the helicopter and didn't care if he was somehow made alive or was appearing in flashback.

If this is it, and really it should be, I'm good with it. This season and part of last were uneven. I've had my fill.

[Túrin the Turambar]

does anyone know whom Sherlock sends this text in the last sequence? ("You know where to find me. SH")

The Woman? Molly? or his parents (they listen to him and Euron playing at the end)?

[Túrin the Turambar]

PS.

since Euros is the God of the (dangerous) East Wind.

do you think that GRRM named Euron as a reference to this?

[red snow]

23 minutes ago, Túrin the Turambar said:

PS.

since Euros is the God of the (dangerous) East Wind.

do you think that GRRM named Euron as a reference to this?

I wouldn't rule it out. It's a happy coincidence,if not. Against it is the other Greyjoys not having wind deity names althought aeron sounds a bit air/wind like and i guess sailors like/fear the wind.

[Quoth]

22 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I enjoyed it.

I did too, Scot. I found it very intense.

After reading the various criticisms above, I can't truly argue that they are wrong. But, at the time of my viewing, the twists and turns came at such a wonderfully rapid pace I could never have processed the show quickly enough to have voiced them. Even now, after reading all of the above I still call it a wildly entertaining episode.   

[blaw]

I've been watching Sherlock for a few years now.

It is one of my favourite series. 

Seasons 1,2 and 3 had some great moments and quite good.

But I am disappointed with seasons 4. In season 4 the end is felt like series ending.

it is one of my favourite series. 

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, blaw said:

I've been watching Sherlock for a few years now.

It is one of my favourite series. 

Seasons 1,2 and 3 had some great moments and quite good.

But I am disappointed with seasons 4. In season 4 the end is felt like series ending.

it is one of my favourite series. 

Congratulations, blaw, on your first post in Westeros! May there be many more! Welcome to the zoo!  

[dooog]

Well, it was better than the episode two weeks ago. But this show is no longer doing the things that made it compelling viewing in seasons 1 & 2.

 

All in all a piss poor season for this show, wrapping it up with a dvd of that awful Mary character was quite fitting.

[the hound of sansa]

I actually enjoyed more the middle ep. It used again the same trope, sherlock on drugs, but it was a more a detective story than the other two, and it was more down to earth. It didn't have super assasin Mary and her mysterious past, and it didn't have superhuman with vague abilities Eurus.
I really hope it wasn't the end of the series. Mary's last speech could be considered as an epilogue, but the events leading to it were very rushed. In 2 minutes Eurus went from very bad, to misunderstood, and then we barely saw her again, and just like that a series ends? Hope not

[Veltigar]

I don't seem to understand the point of this episode. Was it just so they could introduce superheroes to this series? Will Sherlock battle Cap and Iron Man if this series ever returns? This was a really convoluted mess. Some parts of it were nice to see. This show still has some visual flair left (although, the "best" shot of the episode was the exploding flat... That was so horrible I almost fainted from laughing to hard), the actors are great and occassionaly something did manage to stick out of the muddled mess (Sherlock, Watson and Mycroft with their family talk), but overall a severe disappointment. When JM came back, I was so damn happy, I was hoping he would save the episode, but no. Great scene, but the episode remained shite. I could say a lot more and do it a lot more coherently than this, but I'm just tired of this show really. Perhaps it is best that it doesn't return. I'll just keep thinking back to A  Scandal in Belgravia as the last true episode of Sherlock.

15 hours ago, dooog said:

All in all a piss poor season for this show, wrapping it up with a dvd of that awful Mary character was quite fitting.

How many DVD's are there? She should have had the decency to just fuck off for good after being offed  

23 hours ago, red snow said:

I wouldn't rule it out. It's a happy coincidence,if not. Against it is the other Greyjoys not having wind deity names althought aeron sounds a bit air/wind like and i guess sailors like/fear the wind.

It makes sense for the others not to have wind deity names. After all, Euron is the discipel of the Storm God and they belong to the Drowned God