The Ifequevron = the Children of the Forest?

[Im no Ser]

The Worldbook section on Ib contains a reference to a race that sounds suspiciously like the COTF:

The God-Kings of Ib...did succeed in conquering and colonizing a huge swathe of northern Essos immediately south of Ib itself, a densely wooded region that had formerly been the home of a small, shy forest folk. Some say the Ibbenese extinguished this gentle race, whilst others believe they went into hiding in the deeper woods or fled to other lands...[the Sea Snake] wrote of carved trees, haunted grottoes and strange silences. A later traveler...reported that the Dothraki name for the lost people meant "those who walk in the woods." None of the Ibbenese [he] met could say they had ever seen a woods walker, but claimed that the little people blessed a household that left offerings of leaf and stone and water overnight...The Horselords had hitherto shunned the forests of the northern coasts; some say this was because of their reverence for the wood walkers, others because they feared their powers

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Horselords fear the forests.

Fear losing their horses to skinchangers?

I'd say yup.

[Lady Barbrey]

Ifequevron. The name bothers me. It looks like an anagram or something. I think its the if beginning and French ending.

Yes, I think they were children of the forest.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

I absolutely think they are children of the forest, given the super-obvious "carved trees" being explicitly said along with everything else matching up. This I think was one of the most important reveals in TWOIAF. I always assumed the children were confined to Westeros, but obviously that is not the case. Where did they originate? Why did they split up? Was the narrow sea itself once dry land, making Westeros and Essos a single solid continent in the past? So many questions...

[aryagonnakill#2]

The children seem to be all over the world, as we learned in the Yeen section about the "deep ones" who live in a cave and supposedly bred with the islanders who now have huge yellow eyes... the problem is they are also suppose to be taller than any normal human should be, but not as tall as giants, which is a similar description of the skeletons found on Lorath thought to be the maze builders.

[BearQueen87]

Definitely CotF

The children seem to be all over the world, as we learned in the Yeen section about the "deep ones" who live in a cave and supposedly bred with the islanders who now have huge yellow eyes... the problem is they are also suppose to be taller than any normal human should be, but not as tall as giants, which is a similar description of the skeletons found on Lorath thought to be the maze builders.

I agree with this as well. Given that the Arm of Dorne once linked Essos and Westeros, it makes sense that the COTF were all over the place during the very ancient history of Planetos.

[The Dragon Demands]

Given all of the information about Woods Walkers and carved trees, I think it's obvious (didn't think of that...Dothraki would fear them because they can warg their horses!)....

....HOWEVER, the real question to me is: were the Wood Walkers *exactly* the same as the Children of the Forest, or a related species?

You know, like how the Ibbenese are presented as actually being holdout Neanderthals (though with blatantly non-human other races, the homo sapiens consider them close enough, and just a really odd race of humans).

And even if they were the same "species"....well, so are the Dothraki and the ironborn. There might have been differences.

I was just excited to know for the first time that "yes, the non-human races had some presence in Essos too in ancient times, at least in the large coastal forest north of the Dothraki Sea where the Children were, and in the northern Bone Mountains where giants used to live until they got driven to extinction in war.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

Given all of the information about Woods Walkers and carved trees, I think it's obvious (didn't think of that...Dothraki would fear them because they can warg their horses!)....

....HOWEVER, the real question to me is: were the Wood Walkers *exactly* the same as the Children of the Forest, or a related species?

You know, like how the Ibbenese are presented as actually being holdout Neanderthals (though with blatantly non-human other races, the homo sapiens consider them close enough, and just a really odd race of humans).

And even if they were the same "species"....well, so are the Dothraki and the ironborn. There might have been differences.

I was just excited to know for the first time that "yes, the non-human races had some presence in Essos too in ancient times, at least in the large coastal forest north of the Dothraki Sea where the Children were, and in the northern Bone Mountains where giants used to live until they got driven to extinction in war.

I think it is probably similar to the giants on Essos, how they are still giants but come in different varieties, e.g. they are way bigger on Essos. The Old Ones could be really tall children, and the Ifequevron are probably also the same race as children but not exactly the same. For that matter giants, children, and men could all be the same race, since they can seemingly all breed with each other. Simply separated by time and geography and magic affinity.

[BearQueen87]

....HOWEVER, the real question to me is: were the Wood Walkers *exactly* the same as the Children of the Forest, or a related species?

I think they're a bit like humans: we're all homo sapiens but we differentiated based on location. But we all have the basic make up of "human"

[ellstaysia]

I assumed it was the children, & was happy in that assumption.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I think or they are really The Children of the Forest or a kin to the Children of the Forest, there are some differences from the Westerosi ones. And the Dothraki didn't fear, It's written they admired the Ifequevroni and the ones who probably wipped them out were the Sarnori or the Ibbenese.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I also liked to hear that there are still mammoths on Ibben, so at least 1 creature will not go extinct in the immediate future. It also made me wonder if there could still be giants hidden on Ibben, especially since we are told of how they are very secretive on the interior and don't really like outsiders.

[scotcat]

I think if they're not Children they're at least a species that's closely related to them.

[Drople]

I was just excited to know for the first time that "yes, the non-human races had some presence in Essos too in ancient times, at least in the large coastal forest north of the Dothraki Sea where the Children were, and in the northern Bone Mountains where giants used to live until they got driven to extinction in war.

According the Leaf, the Children have been in the Cave of the Three-eyed Crow for "a thousand thousand of your man-years" (source), so the Children certainly had plenty of time to spread out.

[Jono of Oldtown]

Before the children called the hammer there was no Westeros, you could walk from Asshai to Casterly Rock (if you had a few years). It makes sense that The Children and possiblyWeirwoods may have spread much futher that we thought.

If not Weirwoods perhaps The Children in the east used those black/blue trees you get Shade of the Evening from. There did seem quite a few paralles between the two.

[Reginald blackfield]

Before the children called the hammer there was no Westeros, you could walk from Asshai to Casterly Rock (if you had a few years). It makes sense that The Children and possiblyWeirwoods may have spread much futher that we thought.

If not Weirwoods perhaps The Children in the east used those black/blue trees you get Shade of the Evening from. There did seem quite a few paralles between the two.

By that logic Europe and Africa are part of Asia, they were still distinct continents but were connected.

[Reginald blackfield]

Horselords fear the forests.

Fear losing their horses to skinchangers?

I'd say yup.

I didn't think about that before, seems like a good reason they should fear an otherwise peaceful race.

[LmL]

The children seem to be all over the world, as we learned in the Yeen section about the "deep ones" who live in a cave and supposedly bred with the islanders who now have huge yellow eyes... the problem is they are also suppose to be taller than any normal human should be, but not as tall as giants, which is a similar description of the skeletons found on Lorath thought to be the maze builders.

Boom. The Lengii are a sort of analog, or opposite, of the COTF. The Lengii seem to have interbred with the deep ones, who, like the COTF, live underground - but not in natural grottos and caves, on Leng it's described as a subterranean "city," which implies tunneling and quarrying. From this I deduce that that the Deep Ones are an analog to the COTF, just as the Warlock Trees are an analog to the Weirwoods. Fire and Ice are opposite, but the trees are inversions of the same thing. I think that's relevant.

Also, the Lengii periodically listen to their Deep One gods and execute every foreigner on the island... Sounds like blood sacrifice. They're secretive - like the COTF.

I am seeing the COTF as representing the element earth - as opposed to fire, ice, air(storm) or water (ocean). Obviously Ice and Water are different forms of the same thing, but the mythology coming from the sea and the ice, respectively, are so different in Planetos, so I think George has separated the two. Anyway, my theory is that the earth-aspected creatures are the force of balance, as opposed to the other elements which stand in opposition to an opposite - fire vs ice, storm vs sea.

That Ifequevron example, as well as the Joghwin and other giants that we hear about all over Essos, definitely confirms that the COTF and the Giants (possibly different versions of giants: stone and flesh) once were everywhere, just as dragons were. The old races somehow interbred with men, and eventually the hybrids formed new races of men and came to dominate. I also think the LN was an extinction level event - the story of the Golden Empire of the Dawn from Yi Ti says that even after the LN ended, the earth was a broken thing, and the tribes broke apart and scattered (paraphrase). Much like the Atlantis myth - the survivors went in all directions.

Lastly, we hear about "shape changers" beyond the five forts in the grey wastes, which certainly seem to parallel the far north and imply more skin changing.

[TheSovereignGrave]

Also, the Lengii periodically listen to their Deep One gods and execute every foreigner on the island... Sounds like blood sacrifice. They're secretive - like the COTF.

It sounds more like excessive xenophobia to me. And the Lengii don't listen to the Old Ones anymore; the YiTish Emperor who conquered them had the entrances to the ruins all sealed and I don't believe they've been reopened. Also, it was only the Lengii Empresses who communed with the Old Ones.

[LmL]

I think it is probably similar to the giants on Essos, how they are still giants but come in different varieties, e.g. they are way bigger on Essos. The Old Ones could be really tall children, and the Ifequevron are probably also the same race as children but not exactly the same. For that matter giants, children, and men could all be the same race, since they can seemingly all breed with each other. Simply separated by time and geography and magic affinity.

I've had this thought too. Been thinking about the origins of the giants lately, and all the races for that matter...