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The Ifequevron = the Children of the Forest?


Im no Ser

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Nope.

All that is gold does not glitter,

Not all those who wander are lost;

The old that is strong does not wither,

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

A light from the shadows shall spring;

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,

The crownless again shall be king.

Umm, wrong fantasy novel.
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Well, we’ve seen the tree roots under the deepest snows the North has to offer, in the fantasy novel concerned here... and they aren’t frozen.



Science, too, corroborates this. Below a certain depth, the ground maintains a pretty steady temperature. That’s why animals in extreme climates, be it hot or cold, dig burrows.



Besides, the CotF are the balancing agent, the earth aspect. It is known.


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The roots do not freeze, and the tree does not die. Winter is part of the cycle. That's part of George's lesson to us hear about yin and yang - we need the oppositional forces. The cold is not the enemy of life, or earth. Earth needs cold and fire. Earth needs water and air. Earth needs all these things in balance. It is at the center, trying to balance these oppositional forces. Thus, if the Children otF represent the earth, and they sure seem to, with their "going into the rocks and trees and animals" or whatever when they die, they should be trying to achieve balance between the oppositional forces.

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  • 1 month later...

I think the real value in this theory is that it shows how in the distant past the variable 'magical' species were spread out over the entire world and were not just limited to Westeros. It also helps reinforce the idea of some sort of land route between the far (north)east and the far northwest.

I think it's already been stated that they're no land connection between Essos and Westeros. And why would there need to be? We already know the two continents were connected in the past by the Arm; why is there a need for a second connection?

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I think it's already been stated that they're no land connection between Essos and Westeros. And why would there need to be? We already know the two continents were connected in the past by the Arm; why is there a need for a second connection?

Agree, and the ramifications of the breaking of the arm haven't really ever been discussed. Two oceans that were separate suddenly co-mingled... Ocean currents would have changed, weather patterns...

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Which possibly is why Hyrkoon and the Silver Sea both dried up, yes. May also have made the North more habitable by allowing a southern current to come up the Narrow Sea.



If the Children are earth, so are the giants. The children claim them as brothers and banes. It also fits thematically- they are herders (of mammoth), so they would prefer the plains, whereas the children preferred the woods.



Martin was inspired by Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. Two or three magic races in that. One is primarily sea-related (Tinukeda'ya), two/one are "cousins", one of which embraced early man, one of which opposed him. They divided their territory and the man-haters went north. The southern ones fell to iron-wielding men later, and their brightest star fled to his northern kin and plotted an ultimate revenge.



This fits a split in attitude among the CotF. They are alien, and the entire Bran-Jojen arc may be representative of the split between those that feel they need to keep the Pact (since there are still adherent Northmen, it's still binding) and those who feel the Pact was broken and are now free to act.



EDIT: This might be how "sin" allowed the Others to act. We don't know the details of the Pact; it may have been accidentally broken. Fits the mythological references of the Great Empire of Dawn.


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Which possibly is why Hyrkoon and the Silver Sea both dried up, yes. May also have made the North more habitable by allowing a southern current to come up the Narrow Sea.

These are my thoughts - it would have changed the climate for most of or all of the planet. Ocean currents are no joke. When the Atlantic one shuts down, Europe will freeze. But in this case, yes, we would have warmer water going north, presumably. That’s why the narrow sea is so stormy - I’m not a meteorologist, so correct me if I am wrong - but bringing together the hot and cold water in a narrow space will lead to storms. So it does seem that George has thought about these things. He wrote the arm of dorne thing into book one, so its a part of his initial wave of world building. That’s also why the GEotD only made outposts / port cities on southern and western Westeros - the arm wasn’t broken before the LN.

If the Children are earth, so are the giants. The children claim them as brothers and banes. It also fits thematically- they are herders (of mammoth), so they would prefer the plains, whereas the children preferred the woods.

Knowing that Tolkein (borrowing from Norse myth) has two kinds of elves - light elves and dark elves. Since the cotf are clearly elves of a sort, I have been looking for an opposite elf race, suspecting them to be tall elves instead of short. Maybe the giants are playing that roll though. I agree the giants are earth, in any case.

My best guess so far for another elf type are the Old Ones beneath Leng, as the Lengii are very tall and have the golden eyes which can see in the dark (not cat’s eyes, admittedly, so I’m thinking they are hybrid descendants, and the Old Ones are the tall elves. Very speculative, of course, but I have been looking for them. What do you think? Also, considering the Warlock trees as an inverted analog of the weir woods, is their an inverted form of cotf out there?

Martin was inspired by Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. Two or three magic races in that. One is primarily sea-related (Tinukeda'ya), two/one are "cousins", one of which embraced early man, one of which opposed him. They divided their territory and the man-haters went north. The southern ones fell to iron-wielding men later, and their brightest star fled to his northern kin and plotted an ultimate revenge.

I’m not familiar with that, but it sounds similar as far as the man haters being driven north. The brightest star fleeing north sounds like Bloodraven.

This fits a split in attitude among the CotF. They are alien, and the entire Bran-Jojen arc may be representative of the split between those that feel they need to keep the Pact (since there are still adherent Northmen, it's still binding) and those who feel the Pact was broken and are now free to act.

Very interesting. I’d love to get your thoughts sometime on the God’s Eye act, and the possibility that the cotf have been warding westeros from dragons since then, explain why Valyria never conquered or even came to Westeros (Dragonstone and Driftmark and Claw Isle all being islands)... until Black Harren violated the pact, allowing Aegon to invade without fear of COTF consequences (skin changing a dragon or psychically assaulting them).

EDIT: This might be how "sin" allowed the Others to act. We don't know the details of the Pact; it may have been accidentally broken. Fits the mythological references of the Great Empire of Dawn.

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Before the children called the hammer there was no Westeros, you could walk from Asshai to Casterly Rock (if you had a few years). It makes sense that The Children and possiblyWeirwoods may have spread much futher that we thought.

If not Weirwoods perhaps The Children in the east used those black/blue trees you get Shade of the Evening from. There did seem quite a few paralles between the two.

good post, good pickup

By that logic Europe and Africa are part of Asia, they were still distinct continents but were connected.

Terribly nonsensical response to the former

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nothing to be "pretty sure" about, i posted what you responded too, and again i say terribly nonsensical

Firstly, it wasn't me. And secondly, people sometimes quote someone and then respond only to one part of what they're saying. He didn't say anything relating to the possibility that Children and weirwoods could have spread east, just pointing out that being connected doesn't mean there's only a single continent. Of course, I'm not him so I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me.

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Firstly, it wasn't me. And secondly, people sometimes quote someone and then respond only to one part of what they're saying. He didn't say anything relating to the possibility that Children and weirwoods could have spread east, just pointing out that being connected doesn't mean there's only a single continent. Of course, I'm not him so I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me.

Terribly nonsensical

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