How much of what has been told about Baelor I is true?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I don't think that the small age gap makes it more credible. It's the same book in which it is said that Elia might have killed her children, and that was less than two decades ago.

Let's not forget to mention his fanart in the viper pit. I did not expect Baelor to be good-looking.

No one besides Lorch and Clegane saw this act. And Yandel is a total sycophant to Robert, andd willingly disguises all trace of badness on the rebel side.

We just know this not to be true.

He is a Targaryen, so yeah, he probably is a stunner.

[Faydra]

No one besides Lorch and Clegane saw this act. And Yandel is a total sycophant to Robert, andd willingly disguises all trace of badness on the rebel side.

We just know this not to be true.

He is a Targaryen, so yeah, he probably is a stunner.

I agree with this point (about Yandel), but they certainly were not scaling the walls alone, it is not strategic and this way we wouldn't know of the act. There must have been other squires, "knights", etc.

Baelor had his sycophants as well, I assume. Although some parts with the pit could be true (there is a base to pretty much everything).

And I'm glad we agree on the stunning valyrian looks.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I agree with this point (about Yandel), but they certainly were not scaling the walls alone, it is not strategic and this way we wouldn't know of the act. There must have been other squires, "knights", etc.

Baelor had his sycophants as well, I assume. Although some parts with the pit could be true (there is a base to pretty much everything).

And I'm glad we agree on the stunning valyrian looks.

It just seems to be Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane present.

All we know is that Elia was in Maegor's Holdfast, which is surrounded by a dry moat of spikessssss.

Roland Crakehall and Elys Westerling were in the main chamber with Jaime and presumably most of the Lannister forces were with Tywin.

The City Watch and crownlords (Jaramey Rykker, Alliser Thorne) were both on the walls of the city, not the castle.

The Kingsguard (besides Jaime) were absent.

Doubtless people saw, but Tywin might have offed them, and I doubt squires and the like were present, it is no easy feat climbing past all those spikes.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

It just seems to be Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane present.

All we know is that Elia was in Maegor's Holdfast, which is surrounded by a dry moat of spikessssss.

Roland Crakehall and Elys Westerling were in the main chamber with Jaime and presumably most of the Lannister forces were with Tywin.

The City Watch and crownlords (Jaramey Rykker, Alliser Thorne) were both on the walls of the city, not the castle.

The Kingsguard (besides Jaime) were absent.

Doubtless people saw, but Tywin might have offed them, and I doubt squires and the like were present, it is no easy feat climbing past all those spikes.

Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane as knights. But common soldiers? A whole bunch of them accompanied those two. Maybe the Tickler, or Shitmouth, or Raff the Sweetling, or some predecessors, but they were definitely not alone.

[Faydra]

Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane as knights. But common soldiers? A whole bunch of them accompanied those two. Maybe the Tickler, or Shitmouth, or Raff the Sweetling, or some predecessors, but they were definitely not alone.

We can finally agree on something

[complexphoenix]

I don't think that the small age gap makes it more credible. It's the same book in which it is said that Elia might have killed her children, and that was less than two decades ago.

Yandel doesn't say definitively that Elia killed her children, he merely suggests it as a possibility, in the context of a narrative that is biased in favor of the Lannisters in order to avoid giving offense to powerful, living people.

Anyone with an axe to grind and enough power to be a threat who would care how Baelor's sojourn in the snake pit was portrayed is long dead, and Yandel states that it is true without reservation.

[Faydra]

Yandel doesn't say definitively that Elia killed her children, he merely suggests it as a possibility, in the context of a narrative that is biased in favor of the Lannisters in order to avoid giving offense to powerful, living people.

Did I say something else?

Anyone with an axe to grind and enough power to be a threat who would care how Baelor's sojourn in the snake pit was portrayed is long dead, and Yandel states that it is true without reservation.

I can state without reservation many things. It doesn't make them true. If he lies while laying out possibilities (most likely invented by him, because they don't appear in the series), why would I believe him when he states that something he did not witness is a fact? Now, I'm not saying this because I want to convince you to think the same. Quite the opposite, the belief you hold is the one tied to the book and therefore canon. But I hope that you can understand where my point of view comes from.

[Colonel Green]

I can state without reservation many things. It doesn't make them true. If he lies while laying out possibilities (most likely invented by him, because they don't appear in the series), why would I believe him when he states that something he did not witness is a fact?

Because the former is fairly obviously an obfuscation for contemporary political circumstances, and the latter is an issue where he has no stake? He has no problem criticizing Baelor and debunking specific parts of the same story.

[Faydra]

Because the former is fairly obviously an obfuscation for contemporary political circumstances, and the latter is an issue where he has no stake? He has no problem criticizing Baelor and debunking specific parts of the same story.

The one who wrote it before him may have had a stake.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

The one who wrote it before him may have had a stake.

He was the one who wrote it...

One is an eyewitness account by half the Dornish marches. The other seen only by two knights and possibly some of their sworn men.

[Faydra]

He was the one who wrote it...

One is an eyewitness account by half the Dornish marches. The other seen only by two knights and possibly some of their sworn men.

Wrote it, propagated it, it's the same. The information traveled through time and space in a medieval society. I doubt it arrived intact.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

woops sorry

read the post below lol

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Wrote it, propagated it, it's the same. The information traveled through time and space in a medieval society. I doubt it arrived intact.

Sometimes this is true, sometimes is it not. Bran and Rickon are not dead, yet letters say they are.

The Pink Letter also.

Whereas Robert found out about the prenancy of Daenerys from a much further distance, and also Robb and Tywin and also learn of wins and defeats, and no doubt is cast there.

Stannis's letters are disbelieved, but true.

It may be, or may not, but it can not be discredited. Tales like this are fanciful, but no one completely makes up a story, it is steeped

[Faydra]

Sometimes this is true, sometimes is it not. Bran and Rickon are not dead, yet letters say they are.

The Pink Letter also.

Whereas Robert found out about the prenancy of Daenerys from a much further distance, and also Robb and Tywin and also learn of wins and defeats, and no doubt is cast there.

Stannis's letters are disbelieved, but true.

It may be, or may not, but it can not be discredited. Tales like this are fanciful, but no one completely makes up a story, it is steeped

So, we agree then.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

So, we agree then.

In favour of Baelor's story being the truth.

Smallfolk get nothing from lying and would you discredit the same story from 1000 mouths?

I do not agree that Baelor's story is false. Why would it be? It explains a lot of stuff also.

[Faydra]

In favour of Baelor's story being the truth.

Smallfolk get nothing from lying and would you discredit the same story from 1000 mouths?

I do not agree that Baelor's story is false. Why would it be? It explains a lot of stuff also.

You just said that tales like these are steeped.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

You just said that tales like these are steeped.

I said there is a possibility that it is. I also just said that I don't believe that this one is.

I meant to say steeped in truth, "steeped" alone makes no sense.