A+J=T v. 2

[Lord Varys]

We have no reason to assume that Aerys ever raped Joanna. That's one of several possibilities, but in my opinion one of the more unlikely ones:

- While Aerys may have used his royal powers to coerce Joanna into having sex with him in 272 AC, it is unlikely that Aerys would have been able to keep this a secret from Tywin. While there would not necessarily have been traces of violence on Joanna's body, she clearly would have been traumatized/startled/off balance after the event, and Tywin would have noticed that something was amiss. If Joanna was raped by Aerys, and Tyrion was conceived around the time of the tourney, I'd say it is very unlikely that Tywin is the father - unless, of course, Joanna had sex with Tywin shortly before Aerys raped - as it is not very likely that Joanna was in the mood to sleep with Tywin shortly after she was raped.

- Aerys raping Joanna would almost certainly have led to Tywin being dismissed as Hand. By that time Aerys was not yet really mad, and he would have been able to realize that keeping the guy close whose wife he raped could create all sorts of trouble - say, Tywin trying to kill him with his own hands should he find out.

- It is more or less confirmed/very likely that Aerys and Joanna had an affair in 259-252 AC. This could suggest that Joanna actually had feelings for Aerys at one point - or actually loved him (more/rather) than Tywin - we only know that Tywin was very much in love with Joanna, we don't know if she felt the same. Aerys and Joanna have a history. It is not exactly uncommon that former lovers rekindle the old fire from time to time. My personal take on the aftermath of the 'breast comment' is that Aerys later approached Joanna and apologized to her: 'See what he makes me do? Now I'm even mean to you... You know I've always loved you...'

If Joanna had an affair with Aerys in her youth, we should assume that she was more calculating and ambitious than naive. You don't hook up with and keep the interest of the notoriously changeable Crown Prince alive just because you have a pretty face. The fact that this affair apparently began in the night of Jaehaerys' coronation in 259 AC is also somewhat telling/intriguing. This was shortly after Summerhall. Rhaegar had just been born, and Aerys had lost many members of his family in the fire. I'm not sure we can assume that he was the one who initiated the whole thing.

We also know that Joanna supposedly 'ruled Tywin'. This could essentially mean a lot of things, but the most straightforward interpretation would be that Joanna had Tywin under her thumb. If that's the case, then she could have done whatever she wanted before and her marriage - and, in fact, I think that Rhaella dismissed because she took pity on Tywin and wanted to prevent Joanna from making a fool of Tywin by continuing her affair with Aerys even after their marriage. There are pretty obvious hints that Joanna was not exactly enjoying sex with Tywin, as there first children were born years after their wedding, and Tyrion years later still. Tywin stayed at Casterly Rock for half a year after his father's death, yet Joanna did not become pregnant again...

If Joanna was an ambitious woman, than she could have been the one to convince Aerys to name Tywin his Hand. If we go with the assumption that she tried to advance herself/her family I'd assume she was rather pissed that she was reduced to 'the housewife in the West' shortly after her marriage to Tywin.

[chrisdaw]

Joanna was a player, she had control, she wasn't raped. Aerys insulting her beauty was an attempt to show she no longer had any power over him. She proved him wrong that night.

[El Guapo]

^^^^^^^^ Irrational Jon Worship.

A nice dose of wishful thinking too.

[Ser Creighton]

^^^^^^^^ Irrational Jon Worship.

What? Him? Never. Although Martin has said that Tyrion was suicidal, but after he saw the Dragons, his childhood dream he found there were things still out there to live for. Martin loves Tyrion, that's like his kiid and you know there are villians in the series he does not like, he knows you need good villians because they are hard to replace. But that does no equal taking your favorite kid and destroying him because Mithy needs it to be true because he is seeking a bias conformation.

^Indeed. If Jon isn't a darker character after the events of his last chapter I'm calling shenanigans. Especially if he's resurrected. GRRM has been very clear how he felt about Gandalf the White.

What? He will clearly comeback Jon the Raibow and spread joy and love to the world with a wink from his eye and his silver smile of sunshine.

You know is it me or does a certain someone have some serious feels for Jon? Gets all Jelly Jelly of anything Dany/Jon related. What do you think happens around here when those two finally start making like the beast with two backs?

[Nictarion]

What? Him? Never. Although Martin has said that Tyrion was suicidal, but after he saw the Dragons, his childhood dream he found there were things still out there to live for. Martin loves Tyrion, that's like his kiid and you know there are villians in the series he does not like, he knows you need good villians because they are hard to replace. But that does no equal taking your favorite kid and destroying him because Mithy needs it to be true because he is seeking a bias conformation.

What? He will clearly comeback Jon the Raibow and spread joy and love to the world with a wink from his eye and his silver smile of sunshine.

You know is it me or does a certain someone have some serious feels for Jon? Gets all Jelly Jelly of anything Dany/Jon related. What do you think happens around here when those two finally start making like the beast with two backs?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/fmc.gif

[El Guapo]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/fmc.gif

:rofl:

[Mithras]

^Indeed. If Jon isn't a darker character after the events of his last chapter I'm calling shenanigans. Especially if he's resurrected. GRRM has been very clear how he felt about Gandalf the White.

In order to be resurrected, Jon has to die first. And it is not mentinoed that he died as of the end of ADwD. George intentionally described the wounds of Jon as vague as he could. In any case, it is established that Jon will be in Ghost for a while. He will not be shut off for three days and then resurrected like Cat. His conscious will be preserved in Ghost.

I don't think Jon will return as a darker character because this whole assassination was planned by George to send Jon to "hero's trip to underworld to learn his true parentage". That is the big thing George ishas been preparing for 5 books and that should take the spotlights alone, not the possible side effects of an uncertain resurrection or else. Jon's feelings will be overwhelmed by this truth rather than the betrayal of Marsh. Jon will feel sad and angry when he learns the truth about R and L but eventually, he will return to his duty.

[Mithras]

What? Him? Never. Although Martin has said that Tyrion was suicidal, but after he saw the Dragons, his childhood dream he found there were things still out there to live for. Martin loves Tyrion, that's like his kiid and you know there are villians in the series he does not like, he knows you need good villians because they are hard to replace. But that does no equal taking your favorite kid and destroying him because Mithy needs it to be true because he is seeking a bias conformation.

This whole A+J=T theory is a perfect example of confirmation bias.

[sandpiper]

Realizing that the father he killed was not, in fact, his father, and that his real father was actually killed by the brother he loved should amuse him for quite some time.

Im not sure quite about that. His new father certainly does not have a better reputation than his old one. What might happen is that knowing the background, he might understand Tywin better and why he always favoured Cersie and Jamie and never treated him as a credible heir. Tyrion's issues are with the treatment he received from the person he believed to be his father, the person for all practical purposes who was his father. Its about why Tywin rejected him, and if he understands the reasons.

Wonder what Tywin might have thought, if he knew Robert was about to leave his throne to someone not his son and he also had a second son who was now technically his heir, who also was not his. A major issue for him might have been how to redirect the inheritance of house Lannister to an actual Lannister. There's a tricky problem, with an obvious solution which he chose not to use. Perhaps he hoped Tyrion would go off and make a new life for himself somewhere else, giving him an excuse to disinherit him. If that is possible. Could he be disinherited under Westeros law, short of an order from the King?