Who Are We Anyway: Tracing Our History

[Bhotharh]

My aunt and I hit a dead end at 1740.  My grandmother (her mother) kept a lot of fotographs, letters and certificates of any kind, so it was fun to sort it all out.

One the one hand, being German can be pretty beneficial if you're "lucky" enough to have some die-hard nazis among your ancestors. Those aryan certificates really make things easy.

On the other hand, chances are that you come from one (or two) of the millions of displaced persons after WW2 as well. On my father's side most of the official papers were lost in the aftermath of the war and on the run from Silesia. Apparently my paternal grandmother's documents were eaten by mice on some farm in Thuringia.

I actually didn't care about the ethnicity of my ancestors. For me, it was more hearing about the cultural background and life experiences that made them the way they were. I pressured them to tell me everything they remembered. It certainly helped to understand the way they raised their children and grandchildren.

But I always enjoy some strange family resemblences. For instances, when you find a picture of some cousin of your grandmother's with exactly the same grin as your uncle. And my paternal grandmother once saw a picture of me at age 3 and asked me where I got that fotograph of my father.

 

[Gertrude]

Yeah - it's finding things out that's fun. We have photos of me, my dad and my grandmother as small children all tilting our heads at the same angle - it's our version of 'posing' apparently. We also came across a photo of g.g.grandparents with the same eyes as my brother. We could never figure out where the shape came from as no one else looked like that then BAM. There it is.

[Bhotharh]

Have any of you tried to trace back illnesses or anomalies that run in the family?

My sister and I are sleepwalkers even as adults, and only at my grandmother's funeral we learned that my cousin's toddler is sleepwalking pretty heavily, just as his mother did as a child. Sadly, by then it was too late to ask grandma about any other known sleepwalkers the family.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Thanks to the wonders of DNA, I have a new mystery to solve (I thought DNA was going to solve mysteries not create them )

My dad and I got close matches (1st-2nd Cousin) with a woman with an interesting story . Per the adoptive parents: Her grandmother was put up for adoption, along with a brother, and her older sisters were all put into a home when their mother(Alice) killed her abusive husband(George). (not sure of the brother's info - he got pneumonia and died young) 

Alice, who is said to have killed her husband is my father's grandmother.  I remember her from when I was quite young - she died when I was about 6.  My father remembers her quite well too, and has never heard of anything like this happening.

The child who was put up for adoption was born in 1915, 10 years younger than my grandmother and her name was listed as Hazel Francis (mom's maiden name). In the 1920 census reports, we have the 4 sisters we have always known about in a boarding school, but using their mother's maiden name & Alice and George living together. George dies in 1924 and Alice remarries like 4 months later.

Interesting to note that my g-ma named her second daughter Hazel Frances too.

It is obvious that some parts of the story are not true as George was still alive when the children were put into the school and adopted, but the use of their mother's maiden name has always been a mystery to me. 

I have been trying to search newspaper records that are on-line to see if I can find any references to an extreme domestic violence case, but nothing yet. Also trying to find a death certificate.  All I have right now is a "city directory" that lists George as dying in 1924.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Ancestry has a new app called "We're Related" that tries to connect your tree with those of famous people.

It's amusing, but not useful in any real way.  So far it has given me 17 possibles. 2 I am sure are "yes" (at least on my side), 5 possibles, 1 maybe, 8 not likely and 1 "no". I know for a fact 1 is wrong because it has been the bane of my existence.  My great-grandfather lived within a few miles of another man with the same name and who was within a few years of his age. I was relived as that was the possible connection to Sarah Palin.   (the Michelle Obama one is so close, it could be an error on my tree, but I can't find the right info yet...which would also bring in Brad Pitt to the possibles. And since they are both on the same line, I think they might be 7th cousins 2x removed)

Possible Relation	Relationship	Likelihood
Stephen King	9th cousin	very likely
Miley Cyrus	7th cousin 2x removed	very likely
Edgar Alan Poe	7th cousin 4x removed	possible
Dolly Parton	7th cousin 1x removed	possible
Blake Lively	7th cousin 3x removed	possible
Blake Sheldon	8th cousin 1x removed	possible
Kristen Stewart	9th cousin	possible
Mark Twain	6th cousin 4x removed	maybe
Harry S. Truman	6th cousin 3x removed	not likely
Sarah Palin	7th cousin 2x removed	no
Helen Keller	8th cousin 2x removed	not likely
Zachary Taylor	4th Cousin 6x removed	not likely
Benjamin Franklin	2nd cousin 10x removed	not likely
Christina Agullera	9th cousin	not likely
John F, Kennedy	8th cousin 2x removed	not likely
Brad Pitt	9th cousin	not likely
Michelle Obama	9th cousin	not likely

[DireWolfSpirit]

On November 4, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Ser Lepus said:

On February 21, 2016 at 1:10 AM, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

 

Everybody is related to everybody, and every genetic marker can be found in every place in the world. For every genetic marker you can find in Walles, there are people in Southeast Asia with that genetic markers.

^^^^

On November 8, 2016 at 8:13 AM, maarsen said:

Correct as far as it goes but Neanderthal genetic markers and Denisovan genetic markers will not be found in people from sub Saharan Africa.

Thats my understanding of it as well, at least according to the amazing "Out of Africa (Lucy)" documentary I watched.

I know my mothers family comes from County Donegal, Ireland and that my Dads family is from Denmark. But what intrigues me is how those families came to those lands and from where? 

If we are all related to Lucy originally, (as I believe we are) according to our mtDNA, then there is so much of my story that im in the dark about.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Lany my condolences on that Miley Cyrus relation, thats scary, at least there are no Kardashians we can hope 

Having possible Twain and/or Obama relatives more than makes up for it though lol.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

5 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Lany my condolences on that Miley Cyrus relation, thats scary, at least there are no Kardashians we can hope 

Having possible Twain and/or Obama relatives more than makes up for it though lol.

What's funny is the number of grandparents you have at that distance...it makes the likelihood of finding famous relations more likely.

9th cousins share 8th great-grandparents. The number of grandparents doubles each generation, so at 8th great-grandparents we have 1024 (which is what makes it all so funny, and most are so distant even the ancestry DNA test which goes to 8th cousins wouldn't even find the connection)

The number of kids so many of my ancestors had make the odds even higher (and a lot of them were in the south and south central areas of the US, so some of the possibles on my list are not that surprising)

[Ormond]

12 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

What's funny is the number of grandparents you have at that distance...it makes the likelihood of finding famous relations more likely.

9th cousins share 8th great-grandparents. The number of grandparents doubles each generation, so at 8th great-grandparents we have 1024 (which is what makes it all so funny, and most are so distant even the ancestry DNA test which goes to 8th cousins wouldn't even find the connection)

The number of kids so many of my ancestors had make the odds even higher (and a lot of them were in the south and south central areas of the US, so some of the possibles on my list are not that surprising)

The average number of children American women were having around 1800 was just over seven, so most people are going to have ancestors in the 19th century who had lots of kids -- so most would probably have about as many possible "celebrity connections" as you do, I think. 

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

46 minutes ago, Ormond said:

The average number of children American women were having around 1800 was just over seven, so most people are going to have ancestors in the 19th century who had lots of kids -- so most would probably have about as many possible "celebrity connections" as you do, I think. 

yes, that's the point I was trying to make.  Odds are pretty good everyone would get similar results (and really, they mean next to nothing)

 

[Gertrude]

Yeah, that looked like a fun bit of nonsense, but the only way I see to sign in is through Facebook and fuck that.

 

eta: OK, looking into it further, it depends on Facebook and your friends list to work so double and triple fuck that.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Connected with a niece I didn't know I had on ancestry. She's the daughter of my oldest half brother, who lived with us off and on as a kid, and spent most of his adult life in and out of jail.

Amazingly, she's an intelligent, kind, beautiful person. (he wasn't around most of her life). She's currently working on a master's degree in Social Work.

 

Still not making a lot of progress on my dad's Jackson side. I had thought that the New England records would be better than they seem to be.

[maarsen]

8 hours ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Connected with a niece I didn't know I had on ancestry. She's the daughter of my oldest half brother, who lived with us off and on as a kid, and spent most of his adult life in and out of jail.

Amazingly, she's an intelligent, kind, beautiful person. (he wasn't around most of her life). She's currently working on a master's degree in Social Work.

 

Still not making a lot of progress on my dad's Jackson side. I had thought that the New England records would be better than they seem to be.

My sister had a DNA test done and found a cousin we never knew about. She also found out that we apparently have a higher than average proportion of Neanderthal DNA. 

[Gertrude]

Hey Lany, that's fun about the niece! It's frustrating to hit walls. Information is so fragile.

My mom is on Ancestry and has had anyone who would do it DNA tested. One interesting result is that one of our distant cousins still living in the Czech Republic had a confusing hit. The cousin was a link from 10 generations back on my dad's father's line, but he also hit on my dad's 2nd cousin on his mother's side. Both sides of the family had emigrated from the same region, so there was a marriage between the same families on both sides of the ocean that we tracked down.  It helps having someone interested in genealogy who still lives in the country the information is in.

[Ormond]

The discussion of Elizabeth Warren in US Politics prompts me to resurrect this thread ---

A couple of months ago I got my results back from Helix (National Geographic) which I used because the biology professors at my university claimed it was the most scientific of the commercial DNA testing places. It does not give breakdowns of % ancestry by specific country but by larger regions (for example, they told me my DNA is 56% "Northwestern European" and 13% "Southwestern European.)

However, Helix also gives you information about your deep all-female line through mitochondrial DNA and, if you have a Y chromosome, your deep all-male line through analysis of that.  I was stunned when I was told my mitochondrial DNA is B2C, which is Native American! 

Like a lot of Southerners, I had a family legend from some second cousins on my maternal grandfather's side that there was Native American ancestry, which with further investigation turns out to be almost surely something originally created as a joke to explain why my great-great-grandfather was an avid hunter. The mitochondrial result of course goes through my maternal grandmother, and no  one ever intimated there was any Native American ancestry on her side.

The furthest back person in my all female line who I have evidence of from official records is my 5-greats-grandmother Mary Holly, the wife of Israel Holly, maiden name unknown. Mary and Israel moved from Orange County, New York to Greenbrier County, Virginia (now West Virginia) in the 1770s or 1780s. I can't find a marriage record for Mary and Israel in Orange County from what's available online, though there are some records for other Hollys of a similar generation. I always thought it was odd for someone to move from the Hudson River Valley to the Appalachians of West Virginia back then, and I now wonder if part of the reason for the move was so that Mary could "pass" as having all-White ancestry when people back in New York knew she was part "Indian." But I am still amazed by this result from Helix.

I am having such a hard time believing this result that I am seriously considering having my mitochondrial DNA fully sequenced by Family Tree DNA, which evidently does the fullest sequencing of both mitochondrial and Y out there. Have any of you used Family Tree's DNA service? What were your results? They seem to be more expensive than other services but seem to be having a 20% off sale in August. 

https://www.familytreedna.com/

[Larry of the Lawn]

On 7/3/2018 at 5:56 PM, maarsen said:

My sister had a DNA test done and found a cousin we never knew about. She also found out that we apparently have a higher than average proportion of Neanderthal DNA. 

Is it weird/fucked up that I am quite envious of you re: this tidbit of ancestry?

[maarsen]

3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Is it weird/fucked up that I am quite envious of you re: this tidbit of ancestry?

Almost ever tone who is not sub-Saharan African in descent has between 1 to 3 % Neanderthal DNA. Apparently we are closer to 3 % than the average. A half of a percent either way could be within the error range. 

I do have dense bones, which is supposedly a Neanderthal trait. The BMI always tells me I am obese even though I have a 34" waist. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, maarsen said:

Almost ever tone who is not sub-Saharan African in descent has between 1 to 3 % Neanderthal DNA. Apparently we are closer to 3 % than the average. A half of a percent either way could be within the error range. 

I do have dense bones, which is supposedly a Neanderthal trait. The BMI always tells me I am obese even though I have a 34" waist. 

#lifegoals 

I hope we are closely related!

[maarsen]

17 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

#lifegoals 

I hope we are closely related!

If there is gene for being funny, maybe. 

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:44 PM, Ormond said:

The discussion of Elizabeth Warren in US Politics prompts me to resurrect this thread ---

A couple of months ago I got my results back from Helix (National Geographic) which I used because the biology professors at my university claimed it was the most scientific of the commercial DNA testing places. It does not give breakdowns of % ancestry by specific country but by larger regions (for example, they told me my DNA is 56% "Northwestern European" and 13% "Southwestern European.)

However, Helix also gives you information about your deep all-female line through mitochondrial DNA and, if you have a Y chromosome, your deep all-male line through analysis of that.  I was stunned when I was told my mitochondrial DNA is B2C, which is Native American! 

Like a lot of Southerners, I had a family legend from some second cousins on my maternal grandfather's side that there was Native American ancestry, which with further investigation turns out to be almost surely something originally created as a joke to explain why my great-great-grandfather was an avid hunter. The mitochondrial result of course goes through my maternal grandmother, and no  one ever intimated there was any Native American ancestry on her side.

The furthest back person in my all female line who I have evidence of from official records is my 5-greats-grandmother Mary Holly, the wife of Israel Holly, maiden name unknown. Mary and Israel moved from Orange County, New York to Greenbrier County, Virginia (now West Virginia) in the 1770s or 1780s. I can't find a marriage record for Mary and Israel in Orange County from what's available online, though there are some records for other Hollys of a similar generation. I always thought it was odd for someone to move from the Hudson River Valley to the Appalachians of West Virginia back then, and I now wonder if part of the reason for the move was so that Mary could "pass" as having all-White ancestry when people back in New York knew she was part "Indian." But I am still amazed by this result from Helix.

I am having such a hard time believing this result that I am seriously considering having my mitochondrial DNA fully sequenced by Family Tree DNA, which evidently does the fullest sequencing of both mitochondrial and Y out there. Have any of you used Family Tree's DNA service? What were your results? They seem to be more expensive than other services but seem to be having a 20% off sale in August. 

https://www.familytreedna.com/

I think if my records for my mom and dad were reversed, I would totally do the mitochondrial DNA.  As it is, my mom's lines are fairly well mapped out, and there shouldn't be any surprises from it.  (that is one of the more recent lines to immigrate to the US (mid 1800's from Germany - I have not gone past the couple that immigrated though).