How did you figure out R+L=J?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm fully aware that this has been done to death, so sorry, but there's a point to be made.

I started reading the books right before the show came out. I had the sense that Ned wasn't actually Jon's father and thought that Lyanna might be his mother, but at first I thought Robert was his father. I then thought about it more and concluded it was Rhaegar, not Robert, and did some digging online. I discovered quickly that it was the most popular theory among more dedicated fans, and when I read the collected evidence, I found a ton of stuff I hadn't even noticed. It was rock solid for me from then on. So I stumbled upon the idea itself on my own, but didn't get into the deeper meat until going online.

[Lord Lannister]

The whole "Promise me, Ned." by Lyanna bit in Ned's POVs. What would a woman's dying request to her brother be? Then factor in that Rob and Jon are the same age and Ned showed up with Jon after the war, coupled with Rhaegar's "rapes. It didn't really click to me until my second reading though.

[GodKiller]

Never even crossed my mind when reading the books. Never even thought of Jons real mom since ned died. Seen the theory online when i finished reading and thought it was crazy. I don't want to believe it, but wouldn't be shoked if it was true. Although i think Jon will never find out, i don't know if the readers will ever find out either

[Lord Lyman]

disregard.

[Lord Lyman]

The forums. I was one to take things more at face value and believed that Eddard was his father. It wasn't until I came online that I discovered it. While I agree that he is their son., I don't agree with some of the other details.

[BearQueen87]

Second re-read of AGOT while waiting for AFFC to come out (so very pre-Show). It was the section where Ned thinks about Robert's honor and Rhaegar's honor and decides that Rhaegar was the more honorable. I just stopped reading and said out loud, "why the hell doesn't Ned hate this guy [Rhaegar]?" That's when I stopped reading right then and there, and began again, trying to figure out what I was missing. It was during Eddard I and the crypt visit when the light bulb went off.

I've stayed away from internet boards involving ASOIAF until I joined here because I was perfectly happy just reading the books on my own. Then I suddenly felt the need to talk to other people (now I can't stop...). But I was well aware of RLJ pre-Westeros.org.

[Mikkel]

I can't pinpoint when exactly, but sometime while reading ACOK, the collective clues just coalesced into me jotting down "Jon is a dragon!" on a piece of paper (I often doodle while reading). At the time, I was still kinda buying into the "Targaryen supremacy" bullshit, hence my choice of words.

Then while reading the rest of it, the idea just seemed to get more and more likely, and when I finally went online, I realized I was far from the first to come to this conclusion.

[J. Stargaryen]

A friend told me when we were about to start re-watching season 1 on DVD. I hadn't read the books, and had no intention of doing so at that point, since the series was unfinished. I'm not a big fan of waiting. The way he explained it to me was by telling me that Rhaegar was his father. I immediately cursed my friend for a fool, or worse, and asked why Jon didn't look like a Targaryen, like a lot of people do. He said he couldn't remember, but that there was an explanation for it. Then a couple of things started to click. From watching the show, I had decided that Rhaegar and Lyanna were probably in love. Oh wait, are you saying that Ned's sister is the mother? Next, iirc, I thought of the series title, which fits with R+L=J. I can't remember what the rest of my thought process was, but I immediately started looking online once I got home.

[Annara Snow]

Ned's last POV chapter. Up to that point, I thought that the mystery of Jon's mother was incredibly intriguing, but it didn't occur to me that Ned may not be Jon's father. I didn't connect the dots until Ned was reminiscing in his cell about the tournament of Harrenhal and Rhaegar crowning Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty, while also thinking about Jon. Suddenly I connected it all and thought: "Everything falls into place now! How didn't I realize this before, with all those "Promise me, Ned" memories?" Then I thought: "Hm, but I'm not completely sure if it was consensual or rape as Robert claimed?" I went back and checked all the mentions of Lyanna and Rhaegar in Ned's chapters - Ned telling Arya how wilful Lyanna was and that it led her to an early grave, that memory of Lyanna talking about Robert that showed that she wasn't crazy about marrying him, the way Ned thinks about Rhaegar without hate and compares him positively to Robert at one point, and all those mentions of blue roses - and from that moment on, I've been convinced: Jon is their son, and yes, it was consensual. In particular, there is a moment in his conversation with Cersei that I saw in completely new light when I went back and reread it: when Cersei tells how Robert cried "Lyanna" on their wedding night, the text says: "For a moment, he thought of blue roses and he wanted to cry" and then Ned says: "I don't know which one of you I pity more." The first time, I just thought he was referring to the fact that Robert was pining after a dead girl, but going back to that scene, I thought it was because Ned knows that Lyanna never loved Robert.

I had no idea at the time if other people thought the same. I had a thread at the time on TrekBBS forum in Science fiction and fantasy subforum, where I asked people for non-spoilery info on books and the show, which I hadn't seen. Then when I started reading the first book, I added a few updates on what I thought about the story so far. At the point, I wrote: "Hm, this is funny: so, Joffrey's uncle is also his real father, but apparently Jon's father is actually just his uncle?" Someone replied that I'm not the only one to come to that conclusion and that it was a popular theory. I googled "Lyanna Rhaegar" out of curiosity and saw that there was a lot of pages and artwork images, but didn't check any.

When I read Bran's chapter in ASOS with Meera's story, I was immediately sure Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and that it was how she and Rhaegar met.

[Anythingatall]

I really really really wanted to know who Jon's Mother was (assuming he was Ned's son) so every time Ned thought of him I read all around the text to try and work it out. I cannot remember what actually made me click but it was before his dream in the cells, it was his thoughts of Rhaegar that prompted it not his thoughts of Lyanna. I figured out most of it myself (bed of blood, promise me Ned) the blue rose stuff went over my head though.

I was super pleased with my sleuthing as normally I am oblivious to any sort of foreshadowing/subtext/twists until they are revealed (I have never caught onto a single other thing in the books, like I couldn't even work out what most of Danys HotU visions meant, not even the kings fighting over Westeroes). I was a bit gutted when I realised how widely accepted and known the theory is as I felt extremely clever for figuring it out.

[The guy from the Vale]

On my first read, I didn't figure it out, but I felt there was something strange about Jon's mother and was waiting for a reveal that ultimately didn't come until AFFC.

When I went on the forums the first time, a lot of things started to fall into place, but I was still skeptical and decided to reread with the idea on my mind - and things started to make a lot more sense, over the entirety of all the books.

Still, what ultimately did me in was the back-to-back telling of the stories of Bael the Bard and the KotLT. It's what ultiimately convinced me that what these rather long stories (each being the centerpiece of an otherwise rather uneventful chapter) were telling was important, and they were connected by the blue rose, but also featured a daughter of Winterfell who was "kidnapped" and a bard who would be king. Curious and curiouser... ;)

[Ivan Tsarevich]

R+L=J was about the only theory I had solid idea of before discovering these forums. :laugh:

I have feeling I was reading AGoT at the time, propably not the first read. In some point, it all just clicked, and I thought "What if..." and it made sense! I was unable to dismiss it. Later, I found all the evidence others were gathered, and was convinced even further. And there I am.

Now I can't go swearing it was exactly pure revelation. Web is dark and full of horrors... there may have been some sort of hints and spoilers. And it was years ago, so my memories are clouded. But I had my own Eureka! -moment.

[Knight Of Winter]

By visiting this forum and reading all the work R+L=J theoreticians did.

Now I see what kind of inattentive reader I was when I first read the books.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I googled "Jon Snow's mother" and that's how I got here...

Started reading after watching a few episodes of the show and it was show!Ned's line ...we'll talk about your mother..." that got me intrigued so I was reading already spoiled. Needless to say, it does make perfect sense once you have the connection.

[Ygrain]

On my second re-read. On the first one, I noticed the inconsistency between "Rhaegar raped Lyanna" and "Rhaegar died for the woman he loved", Ned silence didn't make any sense and his thought about Rhaegar not visiting brothels didn't fit, either. So I went on a re-read and paid close attention to Ned's PoV and figured that he would be silent if he couldn't tell the truth but didn't want to lie, that he lied for the sake of his family, and that Lyanna apparently died in childbirth and the child could have been by no other but Rhaegar. Then it all clicked together.

[Faceless User]

I found out here.

When I read the books I thought Benjen was the father.

[RedShirt47]

I'm fully aware that this has been done to death, so sorry, but there's a point to be made.

I started reading the books right before the show came out. I had the sense that Ned wasn't actually Jon's father and thought that Lyanna might be his mother, but at first I thought Robert was his father. I then thought about it more and concluded it was Rhaegar, not Robert, and did some digging online. I discovered quickly that it was the most popular theory among more dedicated fans, and when I read the collected evidence, I found a ton of stuff I hadn't even noticed. It was rock solid for me from then on. So I stumbled upon the idea itself on my own, but didn't get into the deeper meat until going online.

Very similar to my thought process, although I didn't get to Rhaegar, as father I drank the Robert Kool Aid and thought the reason he started the war was because he had at least slept with Lyanna.

The line that got me thinking about it was "He's my blood" when Ned was speaking with Cat. It seemed odd to me and felt like he should have said "He's my son" but couldn't.

So I googled it and found this site been here ever since...

[LordStoneheart]

Started reading the day I found out there was a show and didn't actually watch the show until I was done with Clash. Then I found out the concept in the theories section of the wiki, with no inkling whatsoever and I'm not ashamed to admit that. I was only a young boy. :)

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

As soon as I watched Episode one I was intrigued as to who Jon's Mother would turn out to be, As you don't set up a mystery parentage without it being significant.

But I didn't get any ideas from the show, they did a shite job of it. lol I think I vaguely recall thinking perhaps Ashara.

Anyway I started reading the books at the beginning of season 3, and it took me 4 days to read AGOT and 6 to read ACOK and it was about a third of the way into ACOK, I had been thinking on who Jon's mother might be, and was up a ladder on the landing stripping wallpaper when It came to me! I shouted out "Of course!! Lyanna is his mother" and ran downstairs to google it. I thought I was so clever. lol. I was gutted to see it is like THE theory. hahaha, anyhow that led me here and I've loved it and developed so many theories since getting to this board.

I am 100% convinced R+L=J, especially after having read all the stuff that other people noticed to put it together as my own conclusion was seemingly subconscious. I didn't think anything re promise me, or KG at the Tower etc to lead me to it. It was like a eureka moment.

[rozemarijn]

The 'bed of blood' of Lyanna and the fever, the combination indicated childbirth and his 'promises' he had made and what he had sacrificed for them did not cover just bringing back her bones.