Ser Creighton Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Lyanna looks a little concerned. Like, "oh sweet seven. I have to teach him everything, don't I?"I would say she looks startled. I hear sometimes, women don't like it when random guys stick their lances in their face. Hold on let me ask someone... Nope most of them don't like but you never know there is an exception for just about everything these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 As for referring to people as "blood," Cersei refers to Tyrion as her blood, when discussion Catelyn seizing Tyrion at the Inn. Does that mean Cersei thinks Tyrion is her child? No. Does that mean Cersei thinks that she and Tyrion are related? Yes. Stop the madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I would say she looks startled. I hear sometimes, women don't like it when random guys stick their lances in their face. Hold on let me ask someone... Nope most of them don't like but you never know there is an exception for just about everything these days. Gosh, that was literally what Rhaegar did. Did he even ask her if she was ok with the crowning? Because pretty much everyone remembers how everybody got mad, but what about Lyanna? On one side, Brandon and Ned were probably asking "where did you met him?", "what did he tell you?", "did he tell you he's married??!" and on the other, Ben chanting "Lyanna's got a boyfriend! Lyanna's got a boyfriend...!". Poor girl was probably asking for someone to shoot her and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 So, if someone says that someone's bastard is not someone's child, does that mean we can discount everything they say, because they don't understand the language the books are originally written in and that they are discussing in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Gosh, that was literally what Rhaegar did. Did he even ask her if she was ok with the crowning? Because pretty much everyone remembers how everybody got mad, but what about Lyanna? On one side, Brandon and Ned were probably asking "where did you met him?", "what did he tell you?", "did he tell you he's married??!" and on the other, Ben chanting "Lyanna's got a boyfriend! Lyanna's got a boyfriend...!". Poor girl was probably asking for someone to shoot her and die.I don't think she was expecting to get shot like that though. Probably why they didn't talk for a while. I took a slap to get that information by the way. Not only do women not like having random lances in their faces they don't like being asked about random lances being placed in their face either. But I said, "hey what if I put a ring on the lance, would you like it more then?" " But it's flowers too, so if I give you flowers can I put my lance in your face?" They just seemed to angrier the more I asked them about it. I don't know what the big deal is the women seem to think I am talking about something other than jousting lances. How very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I don't think she was expecting to get shot like that though. Probably why they didn't talk for a while. I took a slap to get that information by the way. Not only do women not like having random lances in their faces they don't like being asked about random lances being placed in their face either. But I said, "hey what if I put a ring on the lance, would you like it more then?" " But it's flowers too, so if I give you flowers can I put my lance in your face?" They just seemed to angrier the more I asked them about it. I don't know what the big deal is the women seem to think I am talking about something other than jousting lances. How very strange. Because that's what every woman want to hear: "do you want me to put my lance in your flower?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Because that's what every woman want to hear: "do you want me to put my lance in your flower?" Well.... I didn't know that. No wonder I've been on a cold streak. I'm going to text that to a certain lady friend. Thanks for helping me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Well.... I didn't know that. No wonder I've been on a cold streak. I'm going to text that to a certain lady friend. Thanks for helping me out!Don't forget to tell her you have a thorny flowery ring on your lance. I think it will go over big. Also tell her you want to show her your tower of Joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 So, if someone says that someone's bastard is not someone's child, does that mean we can discount everything they say, because they don't understand the language the books are originally written in and that they are discussing in? Depends whether they speak legal, or just English. In English your bastard is your child because you physically made them. In legal terms, they're not your child as there are no legal rights or responsibilities that you owe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Gosh, that was literally what Rhaegar did. Did he even ask her if she was ok with the crowning? Because pretty much everyone remembers how everybody got mad, but what about Lyanna? On one side, Brandon and Ned were probably asking "where did you met him?", "what did he tell you?", "did he tell you he's married??!" and on the other, Ben chanting "Lyanna's got a boyfriend! Lyanna's got a boyfriend...!". Poor girl was probably asking for someone to shoot her and die. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Depends whether they speak legal, or just English. In English your bastard is your child because you physically made them. In legal terms, they're not your child as there are no legal rights or responsibilities that you owe them. Ah, now we're into legal again! Welcome back, Fred-something. I did think I have seen this rhetorics before. Nevermind him, folks, he's a sock of someone rather infamous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 lol markg171 is good'ol Fred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 who's fred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Ah, now we're into legal again! Welcome back, Fred-something. I did think I have seen this rhetorics before. Nevermind him, folks, he's a sock of someone rather infamous. lol markg171 is good'ol Fred? Not quite sure what you guys mean, but Id like to hear you try and refute what I said. In Westoros your bastard isnt your child. Theyre your bastard. This distinction is known and always emphasized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Not quite sure what you guys mean, but Id like to hear you try and refute what I said. In Westoros your bastard isnt your child. Theyre your bastard. This distinction is known and always emphasized. why? it's not like you will believe us? why so serious? it's a theory dude...chill out, hang out in the other threads, get to know people that think like you, you know broaden up your mind a bit, get a breath of fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I may not have expressed myself clearly. The knowledge that I stated as facts are such as are confirmed by first-hand witnesses - both Ned and Kevan remember the sight of Aegon's smashed skull, we have Tyrion's PoV for Varys smuggling him out, we have Jaime's recollection of his last talk with Rhaegar, we know how poor Elia ended from multiple accounts as well as the confession of Gregor himself. On the other hand, for the Arbor gold story, we have only a word of mouth. No mention e.g. of a ship captain recalling a flight from KL just before the Sack, no old Flea Bottom nobody clinging to the memories of the only time they drank Arbor gold... that's what I meant by no support. We have only words that the baby switch happened, and words are wind. Just a quick response before I have to go to sleep. I think it is very important to shift through the facts we are given and see what we really know, and what, on the other hand, we only assume. Your points are spot on to this point. Ned and Kevan are "first-hand witnesses" to what? They are both witnesses to Tywin laying before his new king the bodies of Elia and her children, including the child Tywin claims as Aegon, but is unrecognizable because his head is a "red ruin" from Ser Gregor Clegane's murder. We have no first hand witness of the murder other than Clegane himself. Ned and Kevan, who neither have any known contact with Aegon from his birth to the time of his supposed murder, are only reacting to the horrendous nature of the murder and the information given them. They have no way to verify that the dead child is Aegon. They only assume it is. In fact, we only have from Tywin, the assumption that his men carried out his orders and killed the right children. He may or may not know the truth but he does not witness the killing. On the other hand, we have the first hand claim by Varys, the man said to have smuggled the "real Aegon" out of King's Landing in his words to the dying Kevan Lannister that Young Griff is the real Aegon. So, if we are going only by first hand witnesses, I think you've got the facts reversed - although I must admit I don't trust Varys words any more than you seem to do. The reasons for that, however, take more "shifting." More tomorrow to both you and Mountain Lion. Oh, and you too, Twinslayer. Sorry, I didn't notice your greeting earlier and the request about the impact of the world book on certain discussions. Don't have a lot of time tomorrow but I will respond to all of you as soon as I can. Good night everyone (said in my best Tiny Tim imitation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 1) So Hightower, when tasked to find Rhaegar by Aerys, decided to smuggle out Baegon (Baby Aegon) on his own? Or on the orders of Varys? It does not seem within character for Hightower to do it because Varys ordered it, only if Aerys ordered it, which he wouldn't. Aerys was called "The Mad King"... It's kinda hard to say with any certainty what a madman would or would not do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Does anyone in the series ever list one of their bastards when they list their children? Cersei does call all of her children with Jaime her children. In the very conversation with Ned that makes him recount all his children, save Jon. Funny, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 More on bastards from GRRM himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHXWSXgXF6k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Cersei does call all of her children with Jaime her children. In the very conversation with Ned that makes him recount all his children, save Jon. Funny, isn't it? My main contention with the part where "Ned names all his children except Jon" thing is that I do see him name Jon. He names him in contrast to Catelyn's children. All of Cersei's children are by the same man, so her lumping all of her children together makes sense, whereas Ned separating his children by mother also makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 That's not what Ned does though. Yes, Jon appears two sentences after Ned lists all his children in his head, but he is not on the list although they are specifically discussing the idea that your bastards are still your children. GRRM uses a trick here: to the inattentive reader, it seems that Jon is thought of, so he must be on the list. But the fact of the matter is, Jon is an afterthought to a list that should, in context, include bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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