Maia Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 This is the only known instance when a non-Targaryen house was ever involved in the incest (aunt to nephew) - the known Velaryon-Targaryen marriages all involve cousins of various degrees - and the really important thing there is that Jocelyn was Prince Aemon's maternal aunt. No, it is not. Cregan Stark's grandaughters married their paternal uncles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae Boleyn Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 No, it is not. Cregan Stark's grandaughters married their paternal uncles.I think they meant it was the only time a Targaryen had an incestuous match that wasn't incestuous on the Targaryen or Velaryon sides (or both, considering they mingled a lot). Which is, if nothing else, a break in the usual incest pattern of the family. Though it could be said to lend support to the theory that Orys was Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys' bastard half brother.The appearance of uncle/niece incest in the Stark family, or first cousin incest in both the Stark and Lannister families, is a different matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Buf. looking at a Targaryen family tree, the idea that Rhaena could be Corlys mother just came to me. I was convinced that it was a new brand theory, and then I do a little search only to find out its last week's news... :eek: I agree that Rhaena is most likely for Corlys' mother, if he indeed had a Targaryen mother (and not a Targaryen grandmother, for example). We have all the descendants of Aegon I and his sisters accounted for, sothe earlier possible marriage with House Velaryon would be with a sibling of Aerion (he himself was married to Valaena Velaryon, so a double marriage is possible). The conqueror was born at -27, so that union would date back around this time. Corlys was born at 53. So a Targaryen grandmother would require 35 years per generation, which is very unusual. I would rule it off. Laenor was born year 94, and the council was at 101. If his Targaryen blood came from about 130 years and like 4 generations before, would anyone care to remind that he had Targaryen blood on both sides? So we only have three options for Corlys' Targ ancestor:Aera & Rhaella, which would require 11/12 year old girls being impregnated and giving birth.A distant ancestor from before the Conquest.Or Rhaena, who is a great fit. It makes perfect sense for her to have remarried being only 25 at Maegor's death, and would be 30 at Corlys' birth. P.S.: Looking at the World Book's family tree one can see why the marriage wasn't included: Rhaena and Corlys are at opposite sides of the tree. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 THB, the 'Rhaena hypothesis' is pretty old, actually... I really think it has to be either her or Aerea/Rhalla, as you are pretty much right that no one would still remember (or care) that Laenor Velaryon had the blood of the dragon on both sides if the Velaryon line got that blood prior the Conquest - which essentially would have to be the case in the alternative scenario. And with Ran stating that Rhaenys did not present her own claim in 101, and rather threw her whole support behind Laenor's claim, it is very likely that Corlys himself also did not push his claim through his mother Rhaena. But Aerea, Rhalla, and Rhaena all must have had a bunch of descendants, as it right now seems as if the nine lesser claimants were all descended from their lines. If the Velaryons settled on Laenor on the main claimant, the Targaryen faction would have rallied behind Viserys (i.e. Aemma, Alyssa, and Daemon did not present their own claims, too). It is already difficult to pinpoint who Alyssa Velaryon's Targaryen ancestor may have been - the best guess is through a Targaryen from a cadet branch. It does not seem likely that Aerion would have married Valaena Velaryon if he himself had had a sister, thus a sister of Aerion's was most likely not not the mother or grandmother of Alyssa. Although it would be possible if there was a huge Daeron-Daenerys-like age gap between Aerion and his sister. In such a scenario Aegon's paternal aunt could actually have been the mother of Alyssa. But this would still mean that Corlys got his Targaryen blood only shortly after the Conquest. We have no clue how many children the Lords of Dragonstone from Aenar to Daemion had, George only gave us the names of the Lords and their co-ruling sister-wives (if they had married their sisters), not to mention that Aenar also brought cousins and siblings with him to Dragonstone.Daemion could have had male and female cousins, whose lines eventually were absorbed by various branches of House Velaryon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 P.S.: Looking at the World Book's family tree one can see why the marriage wasn't included: Rhaena and Corlys are at opposite sides of the tree. :P Haha, who knows.. :p Alyssa's mother was a Targaryen, and Alyssa was the same age as Aenys (both born in 7 AC), so it would seem most likely that Alyssa's mother was from the generation of Aegon/Visenya/Rhaenys.. We know these three didn't have another sister, so yeah, a cadet branch would make most sense.. (the family tree does show us Aerion, but, only those descendents from him specifically.... so perhaps Aerion had a younger brother who had a sister, who married Alyssa's father, Aethon?) .. We know that Valaena Targaryen had a Targaryen mother... So, if (an unlikely if, but still, if) Valaena's mother + Valaena's father was the first Velaryon/Tararyen union, we'd be looking most likely at a wedding around 45 BC, roughly.. Next we have Alyssa Velaryon, with a Targaryen mother, who, like I said above, most likely was of the same generation as Rhaenys/Visenya/Aegon I. During Maegor's reign, we have another Daemon Velaryon, who might have been Alyssa's brother. If he indeed was, then Corlys most likely had been either his son, or grandson.. Still, that would make Corlys' Targaryen ancestor his grandmother or great-grandmother, which sounds rather far.. But then again, the Martells are a few generations removed from Daenerys (wedding in 187AC, Doran born in 247/248AC, thus with two or three generations in between), and they are still talking about it.. Though, I suppose those two situations are quite different. So yeah, the Rhaena-match still sounds rather likely, if you ask me... She was only 25 years old, after all, when Maegor died.. A powerful marriage, like Alyssa/Robar, would most likely ensure that her children would get a match as good as possible (assuming both girls lived to adulthood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larra Rogare Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So i cbfed reading all the above to see if its been discussed but.... In a world of ice and fire the targaryen lineage clearly shows a sqaure beneath Aerea indicating she is infact a he.... Now either the authors that spend months scrutinising every detail made an oversight or it indicates how far off track people can take his stories.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larra Rogare Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Its a mistake there are a shitload :( now his gunna take even longer with W.O.W.... Or its ment to be like that... Unreliable, it is written by Maester Yandel after all... Or maybe there using that as a safety net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thaeglei of Frostpyre Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We can only speculate what happened to these 2 princesses.. but what strikes me me is Princess Aerea Targaryen.. Her name, Aerea, its a very familiar name.. A Valyrian version of some hardy Northern name.. Maybe this princess was sick and tired of all the wars and fighting.. Maybe she just wanted escape it and move North.. Maybe she met and fine young man from an incognito minor noble house.. Maybe she had a son, then a grandson, then a great granddaughter who was named after her.. Who's own granddaughter may now be carrying her name in her honor; a princess who is also a survivor.. Again, we can only speculate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Either that, or she went to Norvos and was an ancestor of Areo Hotah. Or to the Reach, and preceded Arys Oakheart. Iron Islands for Aeron Greyjoy is also a strong possibility. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Aerea and Rhalla most likely both survived, as nine lesser claimants came forth at the Great Council, and Ran has confirmed that Viserys and Laenor were the only two claimants of the two big factions, which means that those nine people were most likely descended from Aerea, Rhalla (and possibly their mother, Rhaena, in a third marriage). But Aerea and Rhalla's descendants would have the better claims, as they were descended from Aenys' eldest son and chosen heir, Prince Aegon, whereas any descendants of Rhaena by a third marriage would have to go back to Aenys I himself for their first male Targaryen ancestor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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