lokisnow Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Maybe the superheated air is a cognitive illusion. Your brain knows that if people are burning it must be hot so your brain edits in what it expects to find, like color in peripheral vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I’m just about done with a re-read of White Luck (spectacular book). Theory. Wutteät destroyed Ishuäl. Proof. Achamian describes what he’s looking for to Wutteät. (“Truth.”) In doing so, he lays out most of the backstory of Ishuäl. We as readers are not privy to the details of this particular conversation, while the rest of the dialogue is given verbatim. Highly suspicious. Also, the whole exchange leads to nowhere anyway, since truth is infinite, so why did Bakker choose to put it there? Could not Achamian have “sold” some other truth? Why make him divulge highly specific details about Ishuäl? Anyway, after some battling, Wutteät flies off. Since he’s a Consult agent, and interested in making the world come to and end, it makes sense that he destroys the Dûnyain. (We know that Aurang is looking for them.) QED Have we seen this speculation before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nice work HE. Don't think I've ever seen that before. On the subject of chorae, recall that animal intelligence likely has some role to be play in the watcher-watched circuit. For the bearer of the chorae there's possibly a dichotomy where the magical fire is there but also never happened, but the horse is not so lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 If sorcery is a game whose rules are written by [?], and the Aporetics are those who cheat and cheat, then who has written the rules of the Aporos?Theory. Wutteät destroyed Ishuäl.Proof. Achamian describes what he’s looking for to Wutteät. (“Truth.”) In doing so, he lays out most of the backstory of Ishuäl. We as readers are not privy to the details of this particular conversation, while the rest of the dialogue is given verbatim. Highly suspicious. Also, the whole exchange leads to nowhere anyway, since truth is infinite, so why did Bakker choose to put it there? Could not Achamian have “sold” some other truth? Why make him divulge highly specific details about Ishuäl? Anyway, after some battling, Wutteät flies off. Since he’s a Consult agent, and interested in making the world come to and end, it makes sense that he destroys the Dûnyain. (We know that Aurang is looking for them.) QEDHave we seen this speculation before?Some have speculated that Ishuäl was destroyed by Wutteät, but I don't recall anyone pointing to Achamian's 'truth' as their clue. And, now that you mention it, yes that bit seems very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well, I hope not. Would prefer if the Consult had eventually found and destroyed it with their own resources/ingenuity. I don't like that every encounter must serve as foreshadowing of or a catalyst for something meaningful. Why must the first Nonmen Kellhus meets fresh outta highschool be BigMek of all nonpeople? Why must the first/only Nonman Acca ever encounters be the last remaining Nonman king and their most powerful sorc to boot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well, I hope not. Would prefer if the Consult had eventually found and destroyed it with their own resources/ingenuity. I don't like that every encounter must serve as foreshadowing of or a catalyst for something meaningful. Why must the first Nonmen Kellhus meets fresh outta highschool be BigMek of all nonpeople? Why must the first/only Nonman Acca ever encounters be the last remaining Nonman king and their most powerful sorc to boot? ...because we all walk on conditioned ground? Both of those things were NOT coincidences. Are you complaining that you wish that the Dunyain weren't fucking up everyone's lives so much? Because that's kind of omnipresent in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Why must the first Nonmen Kellhus meets fresh outta highschool be BigMek of all nonpeople? Why must the first/only Nonman Acca ever encounters be the last remaining Nonman king and their most powerful sorc to boot? Because Fate, dread Anagkë, is a whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 What does that even mean? Fate sucks a lot of dick for money? Fate had daddy issues? Fate has a lot of stds? Seriously, what is this metaphor supposed to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It just reminds me of lesser fantasy stories: Protagonist meets elf. A rare and reclusive race so that's already remarkable in its own right. But it's not just any elf. Also a king. And the most powerful sorcerer ever. And the last of his line. And the breath-holding world record holder. IMO it's lame and contrived writing. Pretty sure there's even a name for this trope. I feel Bakker can do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The situation is purposely contrived by Kellhus (well, Bakker, in that he's the writer). But it's not happenstance. Kellhus identified Nil'giccas years ago and sent the Captain to be his warden, and set the Skin Eaters in Marrow to await Achamian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 What does that even mean? Fate sucks a lot of dick for money? Fate had daddy issues? Fate has a lot of stds?Seriously, what is this metaphor supposed to be?I think it's based on the notion that just as prostitutes have no emotional or romantic loyalty to their johns, Anagkë has no similar loyalty to mortals needing her intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The situation is purposely contrived by Kellhus (well, Bakker, in that he's the writer). But it's not happenstance. Kellhus identified Nil'giccas years ago and sent the Captain to be his warden, and set the Skin Eaters in Marrow to await Achamian. Given that Kellhus knew Nil'Giccas' fate... What does that mean RE his meeting with the Non-Man Embassy who claim to be sent by NG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 By playing along, he doesn't reveal he knows Ishterebinth has turned. So when the Nonman contingent arrives to ostensibly reinforce his army - wherein truth they will likely turn at some point, he'll likely have them neutralized when they're within his power, rather than having to face the Quya on the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Why must the first Nonmen Kellhus meets fresh outta highschool be BigMek of all nonpeople? Why must the first/only Nonman Acca ever encounters be the last remaining Nonman king and their most powerful sorc to boot? TTT in action, But those futures, he now knew, had been murdered long before. The ground he travelled had been Conditioned through and through. At every turn, the probabilities had been summed, the possibilities averaged, the forks impossibly predetermined ... Even here, standing before Shimeh, he executed but one operation in the skein of another's godlike calculation. Even here, his every decision, his every act, confirmed the dread intent of the Thousandfold Thought. Thirty years... --- Given that Kellhus knew Nil'Giccas' fate... What does that mean RE his meeting with the Non-Man Embassy who claim to be sent by NG? I think Kellhus knew the Nonman was lying to him, and the Nonman knew that he knew. The whole conversation was a mummer's farce and Proyas had no idea what they were truly talking about. This one line stood out to me (but it might be nothing), "The Great Ordeal will reach Golgotterath." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 About the Chorae, I don't think they are anti-magical spheres, they just give you the option to continue from the place where you died in case you're killed by magic. So instead of getting "game over" you get to respawn in the same place. Of course to the character itself it seems as if nothing has happened but the person playing the game gets some real-world penalty, like you lose points or your rank goes down or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 About the Chorae, I don't think they are anti-magical spheres, they just give you the option to continue from the place where you died in case you're killed by magic. So instead of getting "game over" you get to respawn in the same place. Of course to the character itself it seems as if nothing has happened but the person playing the game gets some real-world penalty, like you lose points or your rank goes down or something.But they don't just prevent death, they do seem to be anti magic spheres in some instances. The one Mimara has in cil Aujas doesn't reflect the magical light of the surrilic point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 About the Chorae, I don't think they are anti-magical spheres, they just give you the option to continue from the place where you died in case you're killed by magic. So instead of getting "game over" you get to respawn in the same place. Of course to the character itself it seems as if nothing has happened but the person playing the game gets some real-world penalty, like you lose points or your rank goes down or something.That... would make it even more dungeonsanddragony which would just be a little bit sad. It's an interesting idea but I don't think it squares with chorae working on some sort of liguistic trickery, which we know is one of the main reasons they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Don't chorae work by paradoxes? Isn't that what is written on them? Or is that something I just made up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 you did not just make it up. there's been a lot of discussion about the aporetics that may be involved in their construction. i can't recall what textual authority there is for this set of propositions, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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