addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 How come Dany was born 8 monts after Lyanna's death as by word of GRRM? Lyanna died at the ToJ as we learn from Ned's dreams and recollections.Dany was born in a storm (no storm at the ToJ unless that poetic one of the rose petals) on Dragonstone ~8 months after that - according to SSM. Name days of the children fit that timeline. GRRM is highly tricky... I believe that you are misinterpreting the SSM quote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'd love to see all of those actual indications in the text that Dany wasn't born when (and where) we're told that she was born and furthermore all of those wonderful indications in Ned's POV chapter's that he's Dany's uncle. Because I'm sure those are all there and this isn't a theory based on absolutely no textual evidence whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 GRRM is highly tricky... I believe that you are misinterpreting the SSM quote... Then how else would you interpret it? Problem is that Dany=Lyanna's daughter has absolutely no evidence whatsoever. In fact, there's many a proof that contradicts it: namely Willem Darry and Viserys being there with Rhaella as she was pregnant and giving birth to Dany. There are characters with mysterious parentage behind them, for sure, but Dany is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Well, only a fool would believe at this point that they have entire picture of what went down at the ToJ & the end of Roberto's Rebellion... & none of you guys/girls are fools...Just like Paris said, things are likely far more complex than the simple equation R+L=J (though I believe that R+L=J).Why can't Jon & Dany be twins? The SSM quoted does not eliminate this possibility, GRRM said it's closer to 8 or 9 months than to a year... Okay, this means Jon & Dany were born anywhere from 0 to 10 months apart... Leaving the possibility of them being siblings or even twins... & no I am not twisting GRRM's words, I'm just recognizing the fact that he is highly sneaky & that he works hard to protect his secrets without lying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Well, only a fool would believe at this point that they have entire picture of what went down at the ToJ & the end of Roberto's Rebellion... & none of you guys/girls are fools...Just like Paris said, things are likely far more complex than the simple equation R+L=J (though I believe that R+L=J).Why can't Jon & Dany be twins? The SSM quoted does not eliminate this possibility, GRRM said it's closer to 8 or 9 months than to a year... Okay, this means Jon & Dany were born anywhere from 0 to 10 months apart... Leaving the possibility of them being siblings or even twins... & no I am not twisting GRRM's words, I'm just recognizing the fact that he is highly sneaky & that he works hard to protect his secrets without lying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Then how else would you interpret it? Problem is that Dany=Lyanna's daughter has absolutely no evidence whatsoever. In fact, there's many a proof that contradicts it: namely Willem Darry and Viserys being there with Rhaella as she was pregnant and giving birth to Dany. There are characters with mysterious parentage behind them, for sure, but Dany is not one of them.we'be never seen William dary, & Viserys would have believed whatever he was told... "Storm-Born" makes for a great, catchy name that wards away doubt... Just like a trick that varys would employ... There is something going on more complex than R+L=J, we can all agree on that, I am certain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 double post (again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Why can't Jon & Dany be twins? The SSM quoted does not eliminate this possibility, GRRM said it's closer to 8 or 9 months than to a year... Okay, this means Jon & Dany were born anywhere from 0 to 10 months apart... This is utter nonsense. Not funny. Nonsense.It means, they were born about 8 or 9 months apart.That definitely excludes them being twins, and also makes 10 months pretty unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 This is utter nonsense. Not funny. Nonsense.It means, they were born about 8 or 9 months apart.That definitely excludes them being twins, and also makes 10 months pretty unlikely.For you to say that suggests that you fail to recognize GRRM's efforts to safeguard his secrets without ever telling an outright lie... He is a master at dodging questions, not answering questions (but making you think he answered them), and in this case making YOU believe he said something that he never actually said... I'm sure you are not the only person around here who has underestimated GRRM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm sure you are not the only person around here who has underestimated GRRM... Good to see you making fun again! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 For you to say that suggests that you fail to recognize GRRM's efforts to safeguard his secrets without ever telling an outright lie... He is a master at dodging questions, not answering questions (but making you think he answered them), and in this case making YOU believe he said something that he never actually said...I'm sure you are not the only person around here who has underestimated GRRM... Actually it is quite clear what Martin said. Except to those who enjoy twisting his words beyond the point of absurdity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 For the record, I did not twist anything... The idea that GRRM is cunning & that he guards his secrets just baffles so Many minds around here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Dany turns fourteen the day she learns she's pregnant. When Ned learns it at King's Landing, he has been Hand for a while. When Will is beheaded near Winterfell, Jon is already fourteen, and Robert just left King's Landing for Winterfell. This fits much better with the 9 month gap than with them being twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 addicted to snow - again, the main problem is how Dany being Lyanna's daughter has exactly zero evidence, hints or even implications. You just claim that there must be something more than r+l=j (why should it be?) and then try to shoehorn r+l=d into it without having anything in the text to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 The idea that GRRM gives a straight up answer to a straightforward question because no 'secret' exists [and there is exactly zero evidence of Jon and Dany being twins] just baffles a few minds around here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Penny was given a "Grand Gift" after performing for the sea lord in Bravos... Of course this "Grand Gift" will prove to be a small, worn, iron coin. Not Unlike the coin that Jaquen gave to Arya... I don't think this grand gift was an iron coin, that's a FM thing, not for the Sealord of Braavos to give. But I agree it's not been mentioned idly, and GRRM will surely use it again in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Penny was given a "Grand Gift" after performing for the sea lord in Bravos... Of course this "Grand Gift" will prove to be a small, worn, iron coin. Not Unlike the coin that Jaquen gave to Arya... Penny will die, the coin will pass to Tyrion who will gain yet another layer of plot armor... Eventually Cersei will send the Faceless Men after Tyrion & Sir Robert Strong after Sansa. I think Tyrion will avoid assassination via the coin (somehow)... Tyrion was not listening when Penny mentioned this "Grand Gift" & he immediately changed the subject... Meaning that GRRM was/is hiding something... Penny's name has layers...So, Penny's a Faceless Gal, trying to get close to Daenerys?And um, I've just read a few more of your posts, and well, um, I just hafta ask, what kinda "snow" is it you're addicted to exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oegon Targaryen Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 For you to say that suggests that you fail to recognize GRRM's efforts to safeguard his secrets without ever telling an outright lie... He is a master at dodging questions, not answering questions (but making you think he answered them), and in this case making YOU believe he said something that he never actually said...I'm sure you are not the only person around here who has underestimated GRRM...I don't know if English is your second language? There is nothing ambiguous about GRRM's statement. He's saying they were born about 8 or 9 months apart. He is clearly unwilling to be more specific because he has fans who will spot a tiny inconsistency if something is even a week out and he doesn't want to leave himself open. But on the basis that he didn't lie in this SSM, then Jon and Dany are absolutely not twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Perhaps a thread of its own, since there have not been any small questions asked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 How come Dany was born 8 monts after Lyanna's death as by word of GRRM? Lyanna died at the ToJ as we learn from Ned's dreams and recollections.Dany was born in a storm (no storm at the ToJ unless that poetic one of the rose petals) on Dragonstone ~8 months after that - according to SSM. Name days of the children fit that timeline.It's important to see the entire quote, and not just parts of it (stating this here, as the SSM is linked in your post, JW ;) ) All of which is a long winded way of saying, no, Jon was not born "more than 1 year" before Dany... probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts. "probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts" Bolded the parts that are often left out in the discussions. Eight or nine, or thereabouts... zero would not be near eight or nine months, now would it be? Varys was trying to sow the seeds of war between the Starks & the Lannisters... Varys likely knows that Dany is Lyanna's Daughter & that Ned will fight Robert tooth & nail to protect her... That's not quite what he was doing, now was it? Well, only a fool would believe at this point that they have entire picture of what went down at the ToJ & the end of Roberto's Rebellion... & none of you guys/girls are fools... And no one is claiming that it can be puzzled together at the moment, what all exactly went down. we'be never seen William dary, & Viserys would have believed whatever he was told... "Storm-Born" makes for a great, catchy name that wards away doubt... Just like a trick that varys would employ...There is something going on more complex than R+L=J, we can all agree on that, I am certain...R+L=J isn't complex? There are so many layers of textual hints to that theory... Perhaps a thread of its own, since there have not been any small questions asked...Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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