UnmaskedLurker Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 ...I don't find that sentence very conclusive, but, Ok. More important than the quote, the evidence in the books is that Ned lived by a fairly strict moral code. There might have been times where two moral imperatives came into conflict and one had to yield to the other (e.g., keep a family member safe or tell the truth--cannot do both). But cheating on his wife would not be a situation in which Ned would have to choose between two moral imperatives. Ned would consider cheating on his wife a violation of his own moral standards. I doubt he ever cheated on his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The only person Ned ever dishonored was himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Re: Wylla Manderly's speech. I've posted about it a bunch of times, but here is the relevant text. “Hush, child,” said Lady Leona. “You heard your lord grandfather. Hush! You know nothing.”“I know about the promise,” insisted the girl. “Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men - ADwD, Davos III Notice how "You know nothing" is followed directly by "I know about the promise." The former a sort of taunt repeatedly directed at Jon Snow, usually by Ygritte. So when we read those words, we should automatically think of Jon Snow. Followed by a character named Wylla declaring that she knows about the promise it's almost too obvious. Really, what promise could that be? Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. - AGoT, Eddard I I'd the say the conclusion is obvious enough. Wylla the wet nurse knows about the promise Ned made to his dying sister. Bed of blood + blue winter roses = Lyanna gave birth, and Rhaegar was the father. It's all right there, in Ned's first chapter. But that wouldn't become clear until we learned what the blood and roses really meant. And we don't learn the latter until Ned's final chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Agreed. Hodor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I know that most here will not agree, but I am pretty convinced that we hear about Promise & R+L=J straight from Eddard Stark. I truly believe that his Spirit (along with Khal Drogo's) is in the Red Comet. Furthermore, I believe that it (the Red Comet) will return to Westeros & these spirits will be reborn into Jon Snow's Empty Body. Bam, ALL of the prophesies are Fulfilled & ALL of the foreshadowings are satisfied. One would think that the Bolded sentence above would make readers give this theory more attention, but it does not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Karl Ned reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I know that most here will not agree, but I am pretty convinced that we hear about Promise & R+L=J straight from Eddard Stark. I truly believe that his Spirit (along with Khal Drogo's) is in the Red Comet. Furthermore, I believe that it (the Red Comet) will return to Westeros & these spirits will be reborn into Jon Snow's Empty Body. Bam, ALL of the prophesies are Fulfilled & ALL of the foreshadowings are satisfied. One would think that the Bolded sentence above would make readers give this theory more attention, but it does not... Wait. All the spirits? Ned, Drogo, and I guess you mean AAR? So Ned, Drogo and AAR together are TPTWP or Ned and Drogo are AAR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Wait. All the spirits? Ned, Drogo, and I guess you mean AAR? So Ned, Drogo and AAR together are TPTWP or Ned and Drogo are AAR? Yeah, It's the only way that all of the prophesies work out, including MMD's prophesy that Khal Drogo will return (though most people do not think it is a prophesy). GRRM would never overlook such an great chance to include more prophesy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yeah, It's the only way that all of the prophesies work out, including MMD's prophesy that Khal Drogo will return (though most people do not think it is a prophesy). GRRM would never overlook such an great chance to include for prophesy... But GRRM also talks about people putting too much stock in prophecy or how prophecy comes to pass in unexpected ways. So Drogo returning could mean something wildly different than him actually returning (say...Dany getting a fierce dragon that she just happens to name after her dead husband...). As for Ned, what prophecy talks about him returning? Or do you mean the Great Wolf in the tent? (I feel like we've talked about this before so I'm trying to remember) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 ...I don't find that sentence very conclusive, but, Ok. Why? The guy himself says that he is not the type to screw around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I don't see how that relates to R + L = J . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Eradicating the chance of Ned being Jon's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I don't see how that relates to R + L = J . . . It's how we would find out about R+L=J It's How ll the Legit R+L=J BS would play out & How Jon Snow's body (at least) would come to be king... It is very much related to R+L=J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It's how we would find out about R+L=J It's How ll the Legit R+L=J BS would play out & How Jon Snow's body (at least) would come to be king... It is very much related to R+L=J I don't know how Ned and Drogo inhabiting Jon's body proves RLJ or RL = Legit J...but okay. And what about Howland Reed or Wylla or Bran's visions? Do they not come into this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 More important than the quote, the evidence in the books is that Ned lived by a fairly strict moral code. There might have been times where two moral imperatives came into conflict and one had to yield to the other (e.g., keep a family member safe or tell the truth--cannot do both). But cheating on his wife would not be a situation in which Ned would have to choose between two moral imperatives. Ned would consider cheating on his wife a violation of his own moral standards. I doubt he ever cheated on his wife. Ah, but I'm nor speaking about cheating on his wife. I'm speaking about Ned 'forgetting' himself while on his way north, to call the banners. He'd have been under lots of pressure, and lets be honest -- in such male dominated societies, it's practically expected for men to have intercourse out of wed-locks at one point or another if only to gather 'experience' before their wedding. Ned is honorable, that is true. But he was also 18 years old, going off to war, in a male dominated society, brother of Brandon and friend of Robert, not yet promised to anyone. Edmure did it. Arys did it. Jon did it. Robb did it. SAM did it. Even Barristan thought about it.... anyway, it doesn't much matter, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 But GRRM also talks about people putting too much stock in prophecy or how prophecy comes to pass in unexpected ways. So Drogo returning could mean something wildly different than him actually returning (say...Dany getting a fierce dragon that she just happens to name after her dead husband...). As for Ned, what prophecy talks about him returning? Or do you mean the Great Wolf in the tent? (I feel like we've talked about this before so I'm trying to remember) True the Great wolf & burning man is important because GRRM never explained it to the reader, so it will be part of the big reveal... Ned's return is mainly due to the fact that Lady Stoneheart is the only possible Nissa Nissa Candidate in the entire series... So AAR has to be at least part Ned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Mithras, I'm afraid you've lost me. What is "Salladhor Saan was a resourceful old pirate, and his crews were born seamen, fearless in a fight. They were wasted in the rear." a double entendre for? Extreme sodomy :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcuda Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 R+L=J v. 1,278,003. Is there really more to discuss? These countless threads are quite humorous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I don't see how that relates to R + L = J . . . It relates to Wylla and the fisherman's daughter. We can't keep going over and over the clues that relate only to R+L, can we? Looking at another angle of the story seems useful, in the spirit of adopting a more exhaustive/holistic view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Extreme sodomy :eek: Ah. okay. I'm too innocent for that. yuck. :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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