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R+L=J v.119


Jon Weirgaryen

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So, question:

How do you think R+L=J will be revealed?

My first post. :) I've been reading this forum for a while.

I think either:

1. Bran will "see" it all unfold and potentially show Jon in his current dream state (because he isn't dead)

2. Howland Reed will show up after Stannis takes over Winterfell and they'll find whatever the heck is in the crypts-and Stannis-being honorable-will grit his teeth and let Jon know

3. Howland Reed will show up at the Wall as Jon wakes up and have a story to tell

Howland is the only one alive who really knows what happened, and Bran can apparently see any time period, so they have to be involved somehow.

Edited: okay Benjen might know...that could be #4

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So, question:

How do you think R+L=J will be revealed?

What possibilities do we have? In no particular order of chance:

1.) Dragon vision from his bloodline.

2.) Wolf vision via Bran.

3.) Howland Reed showing up?

4.) Evidence that had been secreted away in Hightown found by Sam?

5.) Wylla showing up with evidence.

6.) Winterfel Crypts.

7. Melsandre vision or finally putting it together.

8.) One of Rhaegar's friends showing up out of no where who survived.

9.) The Daynes seeking out Jon.

10.) One of Dany's dragons find him. Though this doesn't actually reveal his bloodline, but it would make quite a few people suspicious.

Probably a mix match of some of the ones listed above. Jon will find it out from a vision. Howland Reed will show up with testimony some evidence. Crypt will provide crucial evidence.

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To Jon?

He has this dream in the crypts which he is not able to finish due to waking up from terror. Since his body will be in a coma and his spirit will be in Ghost, this time he will not be able to wake up from that dream and move on. In the crypts, he will see Ned's spirit and probably Lyanna too similar to Jaime saw Joanna but didnot recognize her.

To the Realm?

That one is tricky. That depends on many events.

Another question, to me, is how it will be conveyed to the readers. My suspicion is that Jaime will meet Howland Reed, hear some details about the ToJ, and start puzzling it all together... I might be wrong though ;)

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Another question, to me, is how it will be conveyed to the readers. My suspicion is that Jaime will meet Howland Reed, hear some details about the ToJ, and start puzzling it all together... I might be wrong though ;)

Wouldn't Howland Reed not care for the Lannisters? I imagine he was sworn to secrecy by Ned about the TOJ, so he wouldn't likely be telling anyone he came across the story.

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I think little Edric Dayne has a part to play in the big reveal. House Dayne is bound to become more important in the next book, no? And, Edric already thinks as Jon as his 'brother' albeit, a 'milk-brother' and he liked Arya, and he saw the results of the Red Wedding...

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Wouldn't Howland Reed not care for the Lannisters? I imagine he was sworn to secrecy by Ned about the TOJ, so he wouldn't likely be telling anyone he came across the story.

I'd guess if that were going to happen Howland--having abilities like his son--would have seen it and known who he was supposed to tell and when he would tell it.

I can't wait until he shows up. :)

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To Jon?

He has this dream in the crypts which he is not able to finish due to waking up from terror. Since his body will be in a coma and his spirit will be in Ghost, this time he will not be able to wake up from that dream and move on. In the crypts, he will see Ned's spirit and probably Lyanna too similar to Jaime saw Joanna but didnot recognize her.

To the Realm?

That one is tricky. That depends on many events.

Who says the realm will find out? ^^

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I think we, the audience, will find out about it at the same time as Jon. I think it will be a dream reveal, or maybe a dream telling him where to go (or who to see). Lots of interesting possibilities, really.

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I think we, the audience, will find out about it at the same time as Jon. I think it will be a dream reveal, or maybe a dream telling him where to go (or who to see). Lots of interesting possibilities, really.

Would he even believe such a dream? If the dream told him the key to his destiny lied in the Crypts that might work.

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I don't know what could be in the crypts except ghosts. And if he dreamed a ghost told him something, would he believe it?

There is some speculation that Lyanna's tomb has evidence of his birth right. What that could be, I don't know. Some people have found it odd that she has a stone carving, as only Lords/Kings of the North had a statue carved. Brandon also has a statue carved and wasn't really ever a Lord of the North.

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I don't know what could be in the crypts except ghosts. And if he dreamed a ghost told him something, would he believe it?

Depends. He's become more aware of his dreams and that they sometimes have truth to them (look at how he believes that Summer is dead after seeing the dead direwolf in the crypts in his dreams). If Bran were speaking to him in the dream, it would definitely catch his attention.

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A thought occurred to me about the number that Ned brings with him to the ToJ. Jaime refers to his party in AFfC at some point to something like "not so few as to be easy pickings, but enough to make the broken men and bandits think twice."

Might this been part of Ned's rationale? Dorne is not exactly pacified at this point. He would not want to be wandering around alone, but also not with 1,000s of men to provoke the Dornish into attacking him.

Well with Martin 7 and three tend to be very popular numbers. Anyway Ned does not have to go deep into Dorne weather he knew or not doesn't really matter in terms of why 7 and 3. What I do know is weather he went in force or with a small elite trustworthy force it was a bad situation. Part of it is probably symbolism. But going there is a danger period. The war has been over for 15 seconds and Elia and her children were just butchered. Even when BtB made peace he had to walk through a pit of vipers for Aemon.

Now you can say they were sure nobody in Dorne could of found out, but that's like saying Ned could not have found out where Lyanna is. KL is full of Targaryen loyalist at the time it's possible to leak that, hello Varys. A major force would of slowed him down but he is safer. So it seems that speed was important to him, but either way it would be dangerous, Dorne is not exactly known for it's even temper, either way he is taking a risk.

Question, anyone think it odd that Barbrey brings up lord Dustin, but not Mark Ryswell? I have not seen a lot of super distant relatives in the series that share the same last name sooooo? I mean she seems like if she had more she could dump on Ned she would.

Oh a side note the Arabic meaning of Wylla is unbroken succession, sorry it's not related to your post but there is a lot of Wylla talk and I never gave the name a second thought. Well she is in Dorne, so it sort of is related?

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I don't know what could be in the crypts except ghosts. And if he dreamed a ghost told him something, would he believe it?

It could be you answered your own question, "Ghost" in the crypts of Winterfell. Could be an event will happen there involving Ghost. You can play the Bloodraven card with that, if you want. Though you know you need to get rid of the army first. Though and lets be clear I don't think it will be Jon in Ghost from Castle black to Winterfell and Back. You know the whole Jon is in Ghost thing, it would leave Jon in Ghost for a long time. Like a month or two and Winterfell has occupational force currently and no matter who wins the battle of Ice and Fire. Of course that Battle is probably just an inverse Parallel of the Night King attacking Winterfell, and that will probably repeat way down the road again.

Anyway maybe Jon eventually ends up there and Wargs into Ghost and finds something in the crypts, using his wolfy nose.

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On milk kinship:


And why, if she's alive, we can probably expect Wylla to turn up. Edric, too.



Milk kinship was as relevant for peasants as ‘fostering’ or as ‘hosting’ other children, in that it secured the good will from their masters and their wives. As previously mentioned the milk women’s family is the ‘core range’ to the child she is nursing and they become milk kin, which may strategically be useful for the future if the child is from a higher class family, as the milk women’s children will become ‘milk-brothers’ and ‘milk-sisters.’ Thus peasant women would most often play the role of the ‘milk’ mother to her non-biological children, and they held an important role in maintaining the connection between herself and the master whose baby she is nursing. It is also important to note that it was also a practical way to assist families who were of a very ill mother or whose mother died in childbirth. This would have been helpful in many societies where, especially in times of war, if families perished, other members of society would end up co-parenting through the link of milk-kinship.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_kinship


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