Do you support the Greens or Blacks? Why?

[Jaak]

It doesn't matter if a King has paramours as the children are clearly bastards as they are not born to his wife. If a woman takes paramours (even with her husband's consent) then it throws the paternity of the children into doubt.

Yes, and?

Rhaenyra´s children may have been Laenor´s or someone else´s, but they were hers either way, and it was from her that they were to inherit.

Also, not only Laenor and Viserys accepted Rhaenyra´s elder children as Laenor´s, but Corlys and Rhaenys always backed these children as well.

[Paxter Goldwyne]

Yes, and?

Rhaenyra´s children may have been Laenor´s or someone else´s, but they were hers either way, and it was from her that they were to inherit.

Also, not only Laenor and Viserys accepted Rhaenyra´s elder children as Laenor´s, but Corlys and Rhaenys always backed these children as well.

And if they were not fathered by her husband that makes them illegitimate. Which gives them no more rights to inherit anything than a King's bastard has rights to inherit anything.

[Nictarion]

Why should Aegon say no? He's the eldest son and by tradition and precedent of most succession laws he's the rightful King, whatever his father's wishes may have been.

Because little Fredo Targaryen wasn't his father's choice. Rhaenyra WAS!

[Paxter Goldwyne]

Because little Fredo Targaryen wasn't his father's choice. Rhaenyra WAS!

The King choosing his heir is ridiculous. There has to be a system of succession and as far as most of Westeros is concerned succession passes from father to son.

Would people have gone along with it if Baelor had insisted on naming some random holy man his heir? Or Aerys II had chosen a pyromancer?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

And Aegon being a usurper in your eyes doesn't make him so.

Viserys was injured by the throne when he punished those who accused Rhaenyra's sons of being bastards. The same throne which sliced up Rhaenyra when she usurped it.

It doesn't matter if a King has paramours as the children are clearly bastards as they are not born to his wife. If a woman takes paramours (even with her husband's consent) then it throws the paternity of the children into doubt.

You do know that Jace and Lucerys and Joff were in the line of succession because of their mother right? And if Rhaenyra haven't faked their birth and they actually came from her body then their paternity matters not. Also you seem to forget that Laenor knew and he said nothing about the alledged bastardy of his sons. Pretty much like someone who adopts a child. Should the child have no place to the will because of his DNA?

The King choosing his heir is ridiculous. There has to be a system of succession and as far as most of Westeros is concerned succession passes from father to son.

Last time I checked the Targs were neither Andals nor First Men.

[Aemond's Eye]

And Aegon being a usurper in your eyes doesn't make him so.

Viserys was injured by the throne when he punished those who accused Rhaenyra's sons of being bastards. The same throne which sliced up Rhaenyra when she usurped it.

It doesn't matter if a King has paramours as the children are clearly bastards as they are not born to his wife. If a woman takes paramours (even with her husband's consent) then it throws the paternity of the children into doubt.

Aegon is a usurper on my eyes because he actually was a usurper.

What has Viserys cutting himself got to do with anything? I don't believe that the throne is magical or a sentient being, nor do I think the narrators of these stories are unbiased.

Incidentally, I love your username.

[Paxter Goldwyne]

You do know that Jace and Lucerys and Joff were in the line of succession because of their mother right? And if Rhaenyra haven't faked their birth and they actually came from her body then their paternity matters not. Also you seem to forget that Laenor knew and he said nothing about the alledged bastardy of his sons. Pretty much like someone who adopts a child. Should the child have no place to the will because of his DNA?

Yes they should have no place if they were not fathered by her husband.

If their legitimacy doesn't matter because the claim comes from their mother then all King's bastards should also have claims because the claim to the throne comes from their father.

[Red Tiger]

The King choosing his heir is ridiculous. There has to be a system of succession and as far as most of Westeros is concerned succession passes from father to son.

No, the entire system was built on the power the Targaryens had, Viserys controlled the dragons and had all the power.

Your random holy man argument is ridiculous and you know it, fact is Rhaenyra was his trueborn child and was groomed to be his heir.

[Lord Varys]

Paxter,

children born in wedlock are always the children of husband and wife unless proven otherwise. No one ever proved that Laenor was not the father of Jace, Luke, and Joff, and thus they are his sons.

It is not your (or Alicent's or Otto's) business to inquire whether husband and wife did actually conceive the children they had with each other.

[And if we did that, then the whole Targaryen dynasty had no claim to anything, as Aegon's line died with childless Maegor. Aenys I is most likely not Aegon's son.]

There is law of succession existing for the Iron Throne of Westeros. There are precedents and custom, that's it. It is vague, and subject to change, and the king can change.

By the way: Ironrod's name has nothing to do with his stance on the law of succession. He got that the name of his sternness. The Master of Laws is not some guy who makes law, but (most likely) some guy the king pays to enforce the law he makes.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes they should have no place if they were not fathered by her husband.

If their legitimacy doesn't matter because the claim comes from their mother then all King's bastards should also have claims because the claim to the throne comes from their father.

A. Her husband had accepted that they are his.

B. Their is no DNA test for them actually being bastards. That is something Helicent said.

C. Blackfyres send their regards.

[Paxter Goldwyne]

Aegon is a usurper on my eyes because he actually was a usurper.

What has Viserys cutting himself got to do with anything? I don't believe that the throne is magical or a sentient being, nor do I think the narrators of these stories are unbiased.

Incidentally, I love your username.

But Rhaenyra is a usurper in my eyes because she is actually a usurper.

Thanks, I have a little obsession with Paxter Redwyne and Arbor Gold!

[Jon's Queen Consort]

But Rhaenyra is a usurper in my eyes because she is actually a usurper.

The logic behind this is flawless. I believe that X is bad because he is bad. I just love it!

Even if she was, which is ridiculous to even think of, I am so effing happy for the fact that Helicent was alive to see the death of all of her satan and wannabe satan spawns. Every single one of them died before she does. Every single one. Jaehaerys had his head chopped off, Jaehaera had been kebabed, everyone wanted a little piece of Maelor, Aegon died like the worm he was, Aemond was Darksistered in the eye, Daeron and Helaena died for being disrespectful traitorous brats. Karma is a bitch and if this isn't devine punishment I don't know what it is.

[Red Tiger]

But Rhaenyra is a usurper in my eyes because she is actually a usurper.

Thanks, I have a little obsession with Paxter Redwyne and Arbor Gold!

1. No she isn't

She

Was

The

Chosen

Heir

2. Her being a usurper in your eyes does not make her one, it makes you just wrong

[Nictarion]

The King choosing his heir is ridiculous. There has to be a system of succession and as far as most of Westeros is concerned succession passes from father to son.

Would people have gone along with it if Baelor had insisted on naming some random holy man his heir? Or Aerys II had chosen a pyromancer?

That's just silly. Rhaenyra wasn't "some random" this or that. She was his first born. It's not like there's no precedent for it either, it's the way succession works in Dorne.

If Robert was any kind of responsible leader, he would excluded that little cunt Joffrey, and chosen one of "his" other children as his heir.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The logic behind this is flawless. I believe that X is bad because he is bad. I just love it!

Even if she was, which is ridiculous to even think of, I am so effing happy for the fact that Helicent was alive to see the death of all of her satan and wannabe satan spawns. Every single one of them died before she does. Every single one. Jaehaerys had his head chopped off, Jaehaera had been kebabed, everyone wanted a little piece of Maelor, Aegon died like the worm he was, Aemond was Darksistered in the eye, Daeron and Helaena died for being disrespectful traitorous brats. Karma is a bitch and if this isn't devine punishment I don't know what it is.

Also was she.

[Lord Varys]

Did Alicent live to see Jaehaera's death? I don't think so, she died of the Winter Fever, and this seems to have hit KL in 132 AC, whereas Jaehaera only died when Lord Peake rose to power.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Did Alicent live to see Jaehaera's death? I don't think so, she died of the Winter Fever, and this seems to have hit KL in 132 AC, whereas Jaehaera only died when Lord Peake rose to power.

I don't remember if Helicents death year was stated.

[Red Tiger]

There's no real record of when Alicent died.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Cause his dad said 'Your sister is my heir, not you', plus he was never groomed to rule. His dad's wishes should have mattered to him.

Tywin also said that Tyrion wasn't his heir. Should Tyrion simply bow to Cersei because his daddy said so?

[Red Tiger]

Tywin also said that Tyrion wasn't his heir. Should Tyrion simply bow to Cersei because his daddy said so?

I didn't know Tywin was a king.