Do you support the Greens or Blacks? Why?

[Skinner]

I think it's interesting to think Alicent and her company are very much out of their depth during this whole war. They're a bunch of Tyrell-types who have plans which involve scheming, politics, persuasion, and winning over the various lords with bribery as well as promises.

Daemon is a Pirate King. Literally so, in both senses of the word. His wife is a bloody-handed dragon-riding badass.

They are coming at this war from two VERY different places.

Aegon II beat two dragon riders in combat, two more than Rhaenyra. If that's not badass, I don't know what is!

EDIT: Baela and Rhaenys both injured him, but he survived. That's a win in my book.

[Aemond's Eye]

Aegon II beat two dragon riders in combat, two more than Rhaenyra. If that's not badass, I don't know what is!

EDIT: Baela and Rhaenys both injured him, but he survived. That's a win in my book.

Baela was a dragon rider but wasn't part of the war - she and her dragon were considered too young. There's nothing bad ass about Aegon nearly killing Baela - Sunfyre is the bad ass there.

[SeanF]

How can anyone support the blacks? A MAN COMES BEFORE A WOMAN, PEOPLE, its plain and simple. It's obvious that women were not meant to rule in those days....

Rhaenys, Visenya, Nymeria, and the Yellow Toad say hello.

[Skinner]

Baela was a dragon rider but wasn't part of the war - she and her dragon were considered too young. There's nothing bad ass about Aegon nearly killing Baela - Sunfyre is the bad ass there.

Baela tried to kill him with a dragon. What was he supposed to do. Negotiate?

Anyway, the battle against Rhaenys and the Red Queen was fair, and he won that. Winning a dragon duel is pretty badass.

EDIT: He had Aemond and Vhagar's help at Rook's Roost. That lessens his badassery a bit. Sunfyre is still cool though.

[Aemond's Eye]

Baela tried to kill him with a dragon. What was he supposed to do. Negotiate?

Maybe my first post wasn't clear, as I wasn't suggesting Aegon could have done anything but 'dance' with Baela. My point was that Aegon is hardly bad ass for nearly killing his much younger cousin in a dragon duel - Sunfyre is the bad ass for bring so badly injured and still being able to win.

Rhaenys was also outnumbered, as you pointed out.

[Maid So Fair]

Baela was a dragon rider but wasn't part of the war - she and her dragon were considered too young. There's nothing bad ass about Aegon nearly killing Baela - Sunfyre is the bad ass there.

If anyone is badass in that particular match it is Baela and Moondancer. A teenage girl with a barely big enough to fly dragon taking on a grown man with a dragon several times their size when everything seemed lost? Aegon wishes he had balls the size of Baela's.

[Aemond's Eye]

If anyone is badass in that particular match it is Baela and Moondancer. A teenage girl with a barely big enough to fly dragon taking on a grown man with a dragon several times their size when everything seemed lost? Aegon wishes he had balls the size of Baela's.

I agree with you there. Baela and Moondancer lacked size and experience; Sunfyre was injured, true, but it was still a great show of courage for them to challenge Aegon and his dragon.

[Maid So Fair]

I agree with you there. Baela and Moondancer lacked size and experience; Sunfyre was injured, true, but it was still a great show of courage for them to challenge Aegon and his dragon.

:agree:

He had also just killed Grey Ghost, a fully grown dragon, despite being injured. Moondancer wasn't even as big.

[Jaak]

Baela tried to kill him with a dragon. What was he supposed to do. Negotiate?

Fly?

[Skinner]

Fly?

And be the king who lost Dragonstone to a teenage girl? Don't make me laugh. (too late)

:D

[Elia Sand]

I've just read TPatQ, and I'm a bit confused about Nettles and the part she plays in the story.

Help me out guys?

[Aemond's Eye]

And be the king who lost Dragonstone to a teenage girl? Don't make me laugh. (too late)

:D

Actually, trying to flee isn't about cowardice here - it's about survival. Sunfyre's injuries from Rooks Rest combined with the injuries from the encounter with the Grey Ghost meant Aegon II was in mortal danger. Turning Sunfyre around would have been a smart move.

At the same time, it seems months of planning had went into the takeover of Dragonstone. It was essentially Aegon II's last stand; if this throw of the dice didn't go his way then he was out of options, more or less. So in that respect fighting was also an understandable choice.

[C.T. Phipps]

I've just read TPatQ, and I'm a bit confused about Nettles and the part she plays in the story.

Help me out guys?

She's the wedge which drives Prince Daemon to Suicide by Dragon.

[Aemond's Eye]

She's the wedge which drives Prince Daemon to Suicide by Dragon.

In all of the deaths and fight scenes in the extended WOIAF, the dance of dragons between Daemon & Caraxes and Aemond & Vhagar seems like the one screaming out for the big (or even silver) screen treatment; it has iconic pouring from it. Helped by the poetic touch of Dark Sister being found but not Daemon's body.

[teemo]

I've just read TPatQ, and I'm a bit confused about Nettles and the part she plays in the story.

Help me out guys?

Daemon apparently fell in love with this baseborn girl Nettles. Maybe they bonded over the fact that she could tame Sheepstealer, I don't know. Some people still think Daemon didn't die and lived with Nettles somewhere after the fight with Aemond. And yeah, she definitely drew a wedge between Rhaenyra and Daemon hated her after he found out she ordered Nettles to be murdered.

[Skinner]

Actually, trying to flee isn't about cowardice here - it's about survival. Sunfyre's injuries from Rooks Rest combined with the injuries from the encounter with the Grey Ghost meant Aegon II was in mortal danger. Turning Sunfyre around would have been a smart move.

At the same time, it seems months of planning had went into the takeover of Dragonstone. It was essentially Aegon II's last stand; if this throw of the dice didn't go his way then he was out of options, more or less. So in that respect fighting was also an understandable choice.

Retreating would have been an option, but I doubt anyone would do it.

I won't deny Aegon and Rhaenyra were both pieces of work, but neither were as bad as Aemond or Daemon. I smiled when I read that fight. Poor Alys and Nettles though...

😢

[C.T. Phipps]

I will say, as much as I hate the Westerosi tradition of patriarchy, the nobility rallying behind the False King makes a certain amount of sense since if she rises to power then that opens a whole big can of worms about inheritance laws for everyone else.

I wonder if Rhaenyra could have destroyed Alicent's support if she'd crowned her son.

[Lord Varys]

No chance. King Jacaerys would have as much ire, perhaps even more, than Rhaenyra, as he was supposed to be a bastard. And most Lords using the Great Council as a precedent against female inheritance also dismissed all the claims of males from the female line (i.e. Jace, Luke, and Joff) who came from the female line through both Laenor/Rhaenys and Rhaenyra.

[teemo]

Yeah, being obvious bastards didn't help, although there was no proof of it, of course.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

When discussing the claims of women, Stannis 'Women are weird' Baratheon should not be cited.

:lmao: This is so quotable that I'd love to add it to my signature. May I have your permission, please?

Wonder how daughters feel when they are continuously told they're inherently worth less than sons, whatever may be their qualities. :rolleyes: LOL

Yes, exactly. I was going to write a long, angry missive about the irony of sobbing over second and third sons being passed over while all daughters have had to deal with that since... well, forever.

Even after the Dance there is no clear law of succession for the Iron Throne. Aegon III - and not Jaehaera - rises to the Iron Throne after Aegon II's death, Daena's claim is considered after the death of Baelor I, Daemon Blackfyre challenges Daeron II on a shaky legal basis - a piece of paper signed by Aegon IV that he now is no longer a bastard, and claiming that Daeron II is - and the Great Council of 233 AC dismisses the claim of Prince Maegor. In 283 AC Aerys II passes over Prince Aegon the same way Jaehaerys I passed over Rhaenys in 92 AC, and Robert Baratheon's ascension to the Iron Throne sets a huge precedent for the claim of the female line.

Thanks so much for this. Some of the same people who can't stand the idea of Rhaenrya being heir don't like the Targs much, and are pro-Baratheon. Yes, Robert ruled by right of conquest, but he had a Targ grandmother and changed not a single Targ institution during his 15 year reign.

I think it's interesting to think Alicent and her company are very much out of their depth during this whole war. They're a bunch of Tyrell-types who have plans which involve scheming, politics, persuasion, and winning over the various lords with bribery as well as promises.

Daemon is a Pirate King. Literally so, in both senses of the word. His wife is a bloody-handed dragon-riding badass.

They are coming at this war from two VERY different places.

:agree: This is totally my read of the Dance. I have to echo the person above who said they really enjoy your posts. Even when I disagree with your points, I like your style.

How can anyone support the blacks? A MAN COMES BEFORE A WOMAN, PEOPLE, its plain and simple. It's obvious that women were not meant to rule in those days...look at how crazy Rhaenyra was.

:bs: Would you like me to begin listing "crazy" male Kings of Westeros?