Let us discuss King Viserys I

[Mithras]

I think he was one of the most incompetent kings to sit the IT. I place him to the bottom of the sane kings. What was the point of marrying Alicent Hightower FFS? It was bloody obvious that his succession was a messy subject. One can see it only by knowing that a Great Council was needed to ascertain that Rhaenyra would be the successor of him.

And why in the hell did he oppose Daemon's marriage to Rhaenyra?

[Fanless Mace]

Answer to all the above is because he was a sickly functional idiot who refused advice and waffled over his own decisions. What more do you need?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Ya he seems like he just lost all will to do anything, and then he has peoples tongues ripped out for talking about Rhanyras kids, its kind of weird.

[Lord Varys]

Come on, the Realm was at peace and prospered during his reign in a way it did never before or thereafter. The only thing Viserys failed at was the succession. And why the hell should he not remarry? He could have fathered only daughters, after all.

Not to mention that I really don't think what he could have done to keep his family together besides hoping and trying to knit them together. A good father and husband usually does not (want) to believe of the people closest to him that they will kill each other as soon as he dies.

Viserys would have had to utterly destroy one of the two factions to ensure that there would be a smooth succession, and after Rhaenyra had married Laenor and later Daemon he could not possibly have disinherited her without provoking the ire of House Velaryon. And he clearly did not want to treat his children/wife as chattel - the way Jaehaerys and Alysanne apparently treated many of their children (Vaegon, Maegelle, Saera were most likely tricked/forced out of their birth right against their will - and lively Viserra was supposed to live at the very end of the world) - and was determined to grant them all the honors worthy of a scion of House Targaryen.

Bottom line, I don't think Viserys I was a bad king - or a bad father/husband.

[Anath]

Viserys had no problem treating Rhaenyra as chattel, the way he forced her to marry Laenor showed it clearly. She wasn't allowed the freedom he gave to himself in choosing his second wife.

And I daresay he treated Helaena as chattel as well. Aegon's appetites in all things were known to all, yet Viserys had no problem choosing him to marry his very young sister and father children on her immediately.

He suffered from the peculiar malady some Targaryens were so prone to: he married where he wanted to, politics and duty be damned, and then became all dutiful on his children, forcing them to make the matches he saw as good for the kingdom. Listen to what I say, not what I do.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

In my opinion Viserys was as bad a king as Maegor (or worse). If I remember well, after Aegon's conquest they agreed that the male descendant will inherit, and then came Viserys who shits on everything and makes his descendants to slaughter each other.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I don't see any reason that once he had another whole family that he could not call another great council and set the matter to rest, he knew it as an issue.

[Acnologia Targaryen]

I will just never get why he called back ser otto to be hand and he himself said that alicent wanted her blood on the throne and this is the man you fired for pesting you about the succession. Seriously why bring him back your just asking for trouble would have been better if you just called back rhaenyra to be hand and get it over with.

[Vikingkingq]

Come on, the Realm was at peace and prospered during his reign in a way it did never before or thereafter. The only thing Viserys failed at was the succession. And why the hell should he not remarry? He could have fathered only daughters, after all.

But that succession's failure caused a civil war, and ultimately the downfall of his house. It's a bit "and how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

[Lord Varys]

Anath,

Viserys himself was apparently forced into an arranged marriage. It is no surprise that he chose his second bride himself.

Arranging a match for Rhaenyra was what to be expected. Royals usually don't marry for love. And from a dynastic point of view Laenor was the best match Rhaenyra could hope for, as it united the both senior branches of House Targaryen, giving them and their children the best claim to the Iron Throne (which is most likely the very reason why the Greens did their best to add fuel to the 'Strong rumor').

It is also speculation that Viserys was the driving force behind the Aegon-Helaena match. In my opinion, it is much more likely that Otto/Alicent pushed for that, as the Greens had to paint Aegon and Helaena as 'true Targaryens' to keep Aegon in the game as a potential king.

Appointing Ser Otto as Hand again way clearly a mistake. But that in itself does not really make him a bad king.

Without Ser Otto as Hand there would have been no coup, but this does not mean that there would have been no rebellion/civil war upon Viserys' death.

Vikingkingq,

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you believe the Dance caused the downfall of House Targaryen during Robert's Rebellion?

[The silver dragon]

Anath,

Viserys himself was apparently forced into an arranged marriage. It is no surprise that he chose his second bride himself.

Arranging a match for Rhaenyra was what to be expected. Royals usually don't marry for love. And from a dynastic point of view Laenor was the best match Rhaenyra could hope for, as it united the both senior branches of House Targaryen, giving them and their children the best claim to the Iron Throne (which is most likely the very reason why the Greens did their best to add fuel to the 'Strong rumor').

It is also speculation that Viserys was the driving force behind the Aegon-Helaena match. In my opinion, it is much more likely that Otto/Alicent pushed for that, as the Greens had to paint Aegon and Helaena as 'true Targaryens' to keep Aegon in the game as a potential king.

Appointing Ser Otto as Hand again way clearly a mistake. But that in itself does not really make him a bad king.

Without Ser Otto as Hand there would have been no coup, but this does not mean that there would have been no rebellion/civil war upon Viserys' death.

Vikingkingq,

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you believe the Dance caused the downfall of House Targaryen during Robert's Rebellion?

house Targaryen manged to hold all their land, because threat of dragon fire if a house rebelled. after that their power was purely political, relying on other house's giving their support, to help beat up the house who rebelled. Robert's Rebellion does not happen if dragon's still exist.

[Anath]

Anath,

Viserys himself was apparently forced into an arranged marriage. It is no surprise that he chose his second bride himself.

Arranging a match for Rhaenyra was what to be expected. Royals usually don't marry for love. And from a dynastic point of view Laenor was the best match Rhaenyra could hope for, as it united the both senior branches of House Targaryen, giving them and their children the best claim to the Iron Throne (which is most likely the very reason why the Greens did their best to add fuel to the 'Strong rumor').

It is also speculation that Viserys was the driving force behind the Aegon-Helaena match. In my opinion, it is much more likely that Otto/Alicent pushed for that, as the Greens had to paint Aegon and Helaena as 'true Targaryens' to keep Aegon in the game as a potential king.

Appointing Ser Otto as Hand again way clearly a mistake. But that in itself does not really make him a bad king.

Without Ser Otto as Hand there would have been no coup, but this does not mean that there would have been no rebellion/civil war upon Viserys' death.

Vikingkingq,

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you believe the Dance caused the downfall of House Targaryen during Robert's Rebellion?

Marrying Alicent was a surprise since as a king, he was supposed to make another political match. He clearly had different rules for himself and Rhaenyra. You claimed that he didn't want to treat his wife/children as chattel, I think that that's what he did with Rhaenyra. She was forced into a match she very much didn't want while Viserys had no trouble doing something else for himself. For the record, he was opposed to her second marriage either so the argument that he was forced into his first isn't a solid one. He forced Rhaenyra into her first marriage and then again refused to give her the same freedom he allowed himself.

I don't think Viserys was the driving force between the Helaena/Aegon match either. I think he just left Alicent do whatever she wanted with their daughter, so he'd stay in her good graces. Once again, Viserys' own desires trumped a daughter's best interests.

Reappointing Ser Otto as Hand was clearly a mistake. One might claim that it was just one mistake. I think it was a grave mistake, though, and one that might make him a bad king, I am not sure. There are mistakes that are so appalling that they mark the offender as fatally incompetent. Chernobyl comes to mind. It was just a single mistake, yet I claim wholeheartedly that that the idiot who ordered the trial was an idiot and incompetent. Not sure it's true for Viserys but I won't discard the chance that it is. Without Otto, the civil war would have probably been just a small, badp-organized attempt to thwart the succession.

[Fire Eater]

Viserys married Alicent for love. Although, it does seem like it was that mutual, given she likely poisoned him.

To be fair, his reign was the most prosperous era in the history of the 7K. The realm was at peace as well. He screwed up in terms of failing to deal with the competing interests in his family.

He opposed Daemon's marriage to Rhaenyra, because he knew Daemon was doing it to become king by virtue of his marriage to Rhaenyra. Besides, look at how Daemon treated his first wife, whom he was still married to when he first proposed that he marry Rhaenyra.

Viserys shouldn't have remarried if he expected Rhaenyra to be his heir as sons would inevitably complicate things.

[Vikingkingq]

Vikingkingq,

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you believe the Dance caused the downfall of House Targaryen during Robert's Rebellion?

Without the Dance, the Targaryens would probably still have had dragons, and thus likely no successful rebellion and no steady decline in the monarchy's authority. Also, with a thicker family tree, you don't get a scenario where an unstable candidate like Aerys II is the only possible heir to the Iron Throne.

[Winterfell is Burning]

He was an idiot, who was ultimately responsible for the death of most of his children and grandchildren, and for the death of the dragons, which ultimately caused the fall of House Targaryen.

All he had to do was either not name Rhaenyra as heir or not marry again, but no, he had to do both. And then hire again the man that pestered him to have one of his grandsons as heir. Just pathetic.

[The silver dragon]

Viserys married Alicent for love. Although, it does seem like it was that mutual, given she likely poisoned him.

To be fair, his reign was the most prosperous era in the history of the 7K. The realm was at peace as well. He screwed up in terms of failing to deal with the competing interests in his family.

He opposed Daemon's marriage to Rhaenyra, because he knew Daemon was doing it to become king by virtue of his marriage to Rhaenyra. Besides, look at how Daemon treated his first wife, whom he was still married to when he first proposed that he marry Rhaenyra.

Viserys shouldn't have remarried if he expected Rhaenyra to be his heir as sons would inevitably complicate things.

many argue that, that was because he inherited a kingdom from jaehaerys.

with no less than 7 dragon's i would have liked to see the king or lord foreign or native, who had ball's to even attempt to mess with Viserys reign, something like that would be less like a war and more like a massacre.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

He was an idiot, who was ultimately responsible for the death of most of his children and grandchildren, and for the death of the dragons, which ultimately caused the fall of House Targaryen.

Agree. People blame Aegon III for that :/

[The silver dragon]

all in all a whimsical pushover king in my opinion.( and horrible combo if he had lived after daeron 2 era and not when house targaryen was at they most powerful he so would have gotten dethroned)

and just goes to show dany one should never put on the rabbit ear's, or indulge sex over reason.

[Fire Eater]

many argue that, that was because he inherited a kingdom from jaehaerys.

with no less than 7 dragon's i would have liked to see the king or lord foreign or native, who had ball's to even attempt to mess with Viserys reign, something like that would be less like a war and more like a massacre.

Yet, it continued during Viserys's reign, and I doubt Jaehaerys's legacy would have continued for twenty-six years after his death without some good stewardship.

[Anath]

Viserys clearly did many things right, or else the realm wouldn't have been nearly as prosperous. In comparison, his mistakes seem rather few. The problem was, they were quite grave.

An uxorious man is bad enough. But an uxorious man who also listens to his daughter... A domestic situation that was moved into the field of politics, that was all.