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yankee211

Robb Stark's Folly

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It is amazing that Robb trusted Roose Bolton with thousands of soilders to command. You would think that Eddard taught Robb as his heir about the northern lords, who to trust and not to trust and Eddard never trusted Roose. My point is that Robb should have kept Roose close instead of having him control Haranhell which allowed him to scheme with Tywin.

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Indeed, Robb trusted someone that shouldn't be trusted and that turned out against him... one would say it's quite obvious that was a bad idea knowing the past and reputation of the Boltons and the historical disputes of then against the Starks... but again, Robb Stark didn't had enough men following him to be able to choose on a wide amount of options.


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Indeed, Robb trusted someone that shouldn't be trusted and that turned out against him... one would say it's quite obvious that was a bad idea knowing the past and reputation of the Boltons and the historical disputes of then against the Starks... but again, Robb Stark didn't had enough men following him to be able to choose on a wide amount of options.

Think about it, Robb gave Roose his own personal army for him to command. Roose was cerebral by sending certain lords to impossible missions like the one in Dunskandal where the mountain and tarly's forces capture Mylis Manderly and kill certain lords that benefited Roose in the long run.

But did Cat warned Robb about Roose, I find it hard to believe people around him like Rodrik, Meadge, or the greatjon did not warn him about Roose.

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But did Cat warned Robb about Roose, I find it hard to believe people around him like Rodrik, Meadge, or the greatjon did not warn him about Roose.

There was nothing to warn of. Roose had been 100% loyal up to that point, and the last Bolton rebellion was centuries ago

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Not to mention, he would've been forced to remain loyal if Robb & Catelyn hadn't lost the Karstarks & Freys to their cause. Bolton took advantage of a situation rather than go down with the ship.


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I have to re-read ACOK, I believed Roose started planning the betrayal when Robb gave him thousands of men at arms. Then Roose purposely sent his men with lords like Wylis Manderly to mission that resulted in a few lords being captured or killed. With Eddard dead, Roose waited for the right opportunity for the betrayal.

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I have to re-read ACOK, I believed Roose started planning the betrayal when Robb gave him thousands of men at arms. Then Roose purposely sent his men with lords like Wylis Manderly to mission that resulted in a few lords being captured or killed. With Eddard dead, Roose waited for the right opportunity for the betrayal.

Roose only sent the men to die at Duskendale after Theon had taken Winterfell and the Lannisters/Tyrells won the Blackwater. At that point Robb was losing badly

Some people think he intentionally lost the Green Fork in AGOT as well, but that doesn't make sense. Intentionally losing at that point would be way too risky, especially right after being given command. Roose lost simply because Tywin's host was much stronger, but he made sure the Northern casualties were all from other houses so it was kind of a win-win. GRRM has actually addressed this in an SSM

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There was nothing to warn of. Roose had been 100% loyal up to that point, and the last Bolton rebellion was centuries ago

True. The failing in Robb was he was so young. He fell in love and forgot Family Honor over Personal Honor. People second-guessed him, and acted against his orders. His father was not reared to rule, Brandon was. Ned lost more than a father and brother. Robb was failed by youth and the deaths in this family. He never stood a chance.

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True. The failing in Robb was he was so young. He fell in love and forgot Family Honor over Personal Honor. People second-guessed him, and acted against his orders. His father was not reared to rule, Brandon was. Ned lost more than a father and brother. Robb was failed by youth and the deaths in this family. He never stood a chance.

I blame Cat in someway, Ned told Cat to keep a close eye on Theon because the North would need his ships. When Robb decided to send Theon to Pyke, Cat never reiterated that Ned wanted Theon to be keep close which cost them the war.

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I blame Cat in someway, Ned told Cat to keep a close eye on Theon because the North would need his ships. When Robb decided to send Theon to Pyke, Cat never reiterated that Ned wanted Theon to be keep close which cost them the war.

You are right, yankee211, of course, Cat was impossible. She was a terrible at counseling Robb about strategy. I think that she was meant to be written as a woman who was trying to protect her family, and failed miserably all around. Perhaps one is meant to feel sorry for her, but I have very little sympathy. I disliked her from the moment she appeared on the page. There is plenty of blame to lay around, and she has a share.

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I blame Cat in someway, Ned told Cat to keep a close eye on Theon because the North would need his ships. When Robb decided to send Theon to Pyke, Cat never reiterated that Ned wanted Theon to be keep close which cost them the war.

What?? Catelyn practically begged Robb not to send Theon to Pyke in ACOK. Robb did it anyway because he was an arrogant teenager

You are right, yankee211, of course, Cat was impossible. She was a terrible at counseling Robb about strategy.

Everyone has different opinions about Cat as a mother or human being, but it's insane to say she was terrible at strategy. She was the best advisor Robb had - winning the Freys to his side, coaching him how to appear strong to his bannermen, warning him not to trust Balon Greyjoy, advising him to bend the knee when things appeared hopeless, etc. If he had listened to her in all these things Robb would most likely be alive

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What?? Catelyn practically begged Robb not to send Theon to Pyke in ACOK. Robb did it anyway because he was an arrogant teenager

Everyone has different opinions about Cat as a mother or human being, but it's insane to say she was terrible at strategy. She was the best advisor Robb had - winning the Freys to his side, coaching him how to appear strong to his bannermen, warning him not to trust Balon Greyjoy, advising him to bend the knee when things appeared hopeless, etc. If he had listened to her in all these things Robb would most likely be alive

I was illustrating that Cat did not express to Robb what his father commanded. I think Robb would consider changing his mind because Neds strategy holds weight.

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Robb Stark ultimate folly was his selective Honor code



On one hand he would serve an oath to marry a Frey for his army, but he break that oath rather quickly fucking over the Freys



On the other hand he remember his honor and kills his Kin over his enemy losing his army effectively tarnishing the Starks Reputation in the North. He could have sent him to the wall when the war was over but Nope



Trusting the Boltons were the least of his problems. If Robb would have stuck to Cat's game plan Stannis would have invaded KL uninterrupted by Tywin winning the war.


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I was illustrating that Cat did not express to Robb what his father commanded. I think Robb would consider changing his mind because Neds strategy holds weight.

It seems like you're just searching for any excuse to blame Catelyn for Robb's decision. First, she may not have even known about Ned's order, and I doubt it would have swayed Robb. Second, whatever strategies Ned had in AGOT were irrelevant at that point - the game had changed. Robb already knew Theon was his father's hostage and chose to release him anyway. The bad results are all on him, not the person who warned him what could happen! :bang:

Catelyn did not doom Robb. Releasing Jaime was a boneheaded move on her part, but didn't affect the outcome of the war very much. Robb brought his doom on himself, largely by not listening to his mother

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It seems like you're just searching for any excuse to blame Catelyn for Robb's decision. First, she may not have even known about Ned's order, and I doubt it would have swayed Robb. Second, whatever strategies Ned had in AGOT were irrelevant at that point - the game had changed. Robb already knew Theon was his father's hostage and chose to release him anyway. The bad results are all on him, not the person who warned him what could happen! :bang:

Catelyn did not doom Robb. Releasing Jaime was a boneheaded move on her part, but didn't affect the outcome of the war very much. Robb brought his doom on himself, largely by not listening to his mother

I think it affected the war.Dont forget that Catelyn pis...off Karstark and it led to Karstark's depart from Robb Stark army.

If that wouldnt have happen,its possible Boltons wouldnt betrayed Robb because he would still had bigger army cuz of Karstarks ;)

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I think it affected the war.Dont forget that Catelyn pis...off Karstark and it led to Karstark's depart from Robb Stark army.

If that wouldnt have happen,its possible Boltons wouldnt betrayed Robb because he would still had bigger army cuz of Karstarks ;)

I believe Roose started plotting when the Tyrells joined the Lannisters. At that point Robb was up against incredible odds with no support from his own Aunt. So Roose made sure all starks loyalist (tallhart, glovers, manderlys) where killed or captured at Duskandale without using any of his army

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I believe Roose started plotting when the Tyrells joined the Lannisters. At that point Robb was up against incredible odds with no support from his own Aunt. So Roose made sure all starks loyalist (tallhart, glovers, manderlys) where killed or captured at Duskandale without using any of his army

Yes,thats very well possible ser :).OTOH if Karstark's were still dutiful to King of North its possible that Bolton (on the side with Lannisters) would be in danger if Robb somehow managed to win back north, and then went back to south, he would surely go after Bolton because of this serious betrayal.Thats why I think Bolton might be still with Robb if Karstarks remained in the game.The chance of this is less probbale than your scenario tho ;)

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1) Marrying Jeyne



2) Taking Rickard Karstark's head



3) Sending Theon away



4) Not going back north as soon as the Ironmen attacked



5) Giving Roose Bolton an army





#5 is really only a problem because of the first 4. If not for Robb's bigger follies, giving Roose Bolton that command doesn't hurt anything.


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