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Forever May

Disillusioned with Targaryens (Rhaenys as an adulteress)

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Now that you mention it, and with the word "disillusionment" in the title, I'm disappointed that this is not canon. Or that there wasn't at least rumours of Aegon bedding the both of them... why these rumours don't exist? What's wrong with people??(actually, I can imagine some Lord suggesting it and some other saying "shut up, you fool! we don't want to make him look more awesome than he already is!")

There are rumours that Rhaenys was entertaining other lovers PRECISELY when Aegon was with Visenya. What if she merely retired to her chambers and used one of the secret passageways to join them? Since no one ever saw her at these times thinking she was with someone else was the reasonable assumption. :idea:

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^ I really like the way GRRM deconstructed what seemed to be one of the classic male fantasy tropes: in addition to being this great legendary warrior, conqueror and king, an epitome of masculinity, power and success, he seemed also apparently was in the "Dude married to two hot chicks, hubba hubba" scenario (well, minus the fact they were his sisters). But when we found out more about the marriage, it turns out it was nothing like any such fantasy: he didn't even want Visenya and just married her for duty, Visenya doesn't seem to be any more into him than he was into her, and in later years he could hardly stand her so much that he made sure they were apart; while Rhaenys, the one he actually wanted, is rumored to have had other lovers.

I never saw it like that, like you pointed out the fact that they were his sisters was a giant issue. The other was that I always saw Aegon as a dude who let his dragons do almost all of the work. I still think the most badass Targaryen king was Maekar.

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Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys did not yet live in the Red Keep. They resided in the Aegonsfort and on Dragonstone. No known secret passages there (although they may be some on Dragonstone).



Annara,



we should not assume that Visenya had no affection for Aegon (or vice versa). Aegon had apparently no romantic feelings for her, that's all we know. This does not have to mean that Aegon did not love Visenya as a brother, nor that Visenya herself was not feeling a sisterly or romantic love for Aegon.



We know that she was crucial for the Conquest and the Targaryen reign - and she saved Aegon's life and built the KG. Aegon and she also seem to have been closer in youth, as they apparently visited the Arbor and Oldtown together. Their relationship apparently only declined later in life, and we don't really know what happened there. Perhaps the loss of Rhaenys made Aegon much more darker in his attitude towards Visenya, perhaps wishing she would have died instead of Rhaenys? Perhaps Rhaenys' lighthearted nature was crucial in mitigating any differences between Aegon and Visenya? Perhaps it was because Aegon could not love Maegor the same way Visenya did, or Visenya knew/suspected that Aenys was not Aegon's son?


That would have been more than enough to drive a wedge between Aegon and Visenya, a wedge that was not yet there at the time of the Conquest.


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^ I really like the way GRRM deconstructed what seemed to be one of the classic male fantasy tropes: in addition to being this great legendary warrior, conqueror and king, an epitome of masculinity, power and success, he seemed also apparently was in the "Dude married to two hot chicks, hubba hubba" scenario (well, minus the fact they were his sisters). But when we found out more about the marriage, it turns out it was nothing like any such fantasy: he didn't even want Visenya and just married her for duty, Visenya doesn't seem to be any more into him than he was into her, and in later years he could hardly stand her so much that he made sure they were apart; while Rhaenys, the one he actually wanted, is rumored to have had other lovers.

In addition, GRRM subverts the "masculine" ideal by hinting that Aegon may have been infertile (with the possibility that his sister wives may have both resorted to alternative means of impregnating themselves and carrying on the dynasty, through other men and black magic respectively). There's also some deliberate subversion of stereotypes in the fact that it's the weak king, Aenys, who had no problem having a bunch of kids (while his brother who prided himself on his warrior nature had obvious fertility issues).

Although the infertility rumors are interesting, for some reason my gut says they were probably not true. Or if they were true, that Aegon was ignorant about the fact that he could be infertile (which would be unlikely). If it was true, it seems to me he would have tried to take a third wife, probably from the Valyrions or Celtigars or one of the free cities -- he might not have wanted to, but this is the heir of the kingdoms we're talking about. He might not have gone to the lengths Maegor did (who obviously WAS infertile, and insane to boot), but seeing how practical the three of them tended to be, it would seem the more practical solution would have been to at least try and have Aegon take a third wife... one that WASN'T of direct relation, since that was not working out.

I would think if the rumors about Aynys's true parentage were true then they would have been stronger and caused more problems, since it would give more reason for the peoples of Westeros to consider that the Targs were just like them after all. There would just have been too much potential for unrest to gamble on a sperm donor when Aegon was still young enough to try other means.

Probably the entire setup is more mundane and had its roots in Visenya's personalty. They probably didn't have a child before the conquest because they (and by they, I mostly mean Aegon) knew if Visenya didn't at least give birth to the heir after having to endure a marriage she put up with for the good of the family, she'd be hella-pissed. Best at least that they weren't all cooped up on Dragonstone for that sort of thing -- plus having an heir was a bit less important before they became rulers of an entire continent.

And she was probably incredibly angry anyway. Although it sounds more far-fetched, given the fantasy setting, I'd say there was actually more truth to the fact that Aegon was not Maegor's father and that Visenya did turn to sorcery to conceive her child, given all the massive problems with him. I'm not saying those rumors are true, just that I'd be more inclined to believe them.

Essentially, I think the truth of the situation is that infertility wasn't actually Aegon's deal (it was Maegor's). The infertility thing was just later politicking during the era of a descendant that actually was infertile, which probably lead to a lot of the rumors in itself. I think Aegon's deal was that he loved someone else, had to be in a polygamous marriage that all three of them didn't want from the start (thus deflating the male fantasy... the real truth wasn't that having two wives was hot, it was that it SUCKED, and there was never anything remotely close to three-way hanky panky), and then lost the one person he did love wound up dying as a direct result of his persuit of power. A persuit he and his sisters probably undertook to begin with to distract themselves from their sucky marriage.

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We know that she was crucial for the Conquest and the Targaryen reign - and she saved Aegon's life and built the KG. Aegon and she also seem to have been closer in youth, as they apparently visited the Arbor and Oldtown together. Their relationship apparently only declined later in life, and we don't really know what happened there. Perhaps the loss of Rhaenys made Aegon much more darker in his attitude towards Visenya, perhaps wishing she would have died instead of Rhaenys? Perhaps Rhaenys' lighthearted nature was crucial in mitigating any differences between Aegon and Visenya? Perhaps it was because Aegon could not love Maegor the same way Visenya did, or Visenya knew/suspected that Aenys was not Aegon's son?

That would have been more than enough to drive a wedge between Aegon and Visenya, a wedge that was not yet there at the time of the Conquest.

Although there's probably some truth in some of what you say, the text itself describes their relationship as 'never warm'. As in, maybe they did make these visits together and things were better in the early days, but I took that to mean that if they were closer in youth, that's only in comparison to the later distance, and they they were never what one would regularly describe as close.

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