Disillusioned with Targaryens (Rhaenys as an adulteress)

[Faint]

Given the subsequent character and physical appearance associated with their line, it looks like a pretty safe bet that Aenys was legitimate.

[King Jon Targaryen I]

Aegon knew she was sleeping around, he couldn't care cause its his sister its her sex life even if its his second life. He didn't really have a problem with it and plus Aegon was a good looking guy and he never took any female lover except his sisters which is pretty loyal. Personally I see Aegon allowing his sister to do whatever they wanted which is why is Westeros history they are a rare sight in terms of women with power.

[King Jon Targaryen I]

So, lemme get this straight: When Robert cheats on Cersei (who has been cheating on him since day one) he is a dumb insensitive sexist brute who doesn't respect his wife and deserves to be castrated, and is rightfully cheated on by Cersei (and I don't disagree that much with these points).

But if Rhaenys cheated on Aegon (by the way, I believe both Aenys and Maegor are Aegon's), a husband who by all accounts treated her well and was faithful to her, she is a " free, empowered woman who bravely takes control of her sexuality", refusing to give in to the barbaric patriarchy of marriage that forced her to marry Aegon, and she can basically do whatever the hell she wants.

Not the first time I see this double standard here, sadly.

I highly doubt Aegon gave two shits , they were his sisters/wives she was more sexual of Aegons wives I guess while Visenya was more of a fighter. I think Aegon knew this and quite frankly he did not care. If he had Bastards I am sure Aegon treated them just has he treated Oyrs Baratheon though there is a theory that Orys is a highborn Bastard likely from the Stormland house.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I know a man irl who had a sexual affair with his sister whom he hadn't seen since they were small. Split the family up, went on TV declaring their love etc. it is a real phenomenon. I used to sort of date his son, we went to church together .

[SeanF]

Good points. Plus, the fact that polygamy was not that often practiced, even in Valyria, and that everyone was surprised that Aegon chose to marry both of his sisters, making us realize it wasn't something expected of him, could have made his sisters contemptuous with their whole marital situation, and prone to infidelity. Still, this idea of Aegon the fucking Conqueror being an infertile fraud is really, really disturbing to me, as my avatar and username suggest :P

From their history, it's clear that a lot of Targaryens viewed brother/sister incest as both natural and desirable.

I've no reason to believe that Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya thought differently. And, if you had siblings that looked liked those three *you would*.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The dynamics in the relationships between Robert and Cersei and Aegon and Rhaenys were very very different. Aegon respected and saw their sisters as equals. Also, they both were also part of the Targaryen family by right, not by marriage.

First, Cersei wanted to cheat and cuckold Robert. In purpose. Also, even if her children had been born identical to their father, they still look like her.

Even though there is a chance Rhaenys did not want to marry Aegon, we have no reasons to believe she would have wanted to hurt him. In fact, they both seemed to have actually been a good team during the conquest. If Aegon didn't mind Rhaenys having different men (which I'm sure not many men would agree), I suppose Rhaenys was smart enough to not show up with a red haired kid and say "look, Aegon, is your son". Why would she? Cersei's actions are not a the norm of behaviour for women in Westeros.

[jon stark I]

Lets see aside from Ned and probably other Starks honor, if you want badass don't look very far.We have STARKs.Ice Eyes is all you have to look at what kind of badass we are talking about.These guys constantly fought Wildlings and won, one king wrestled to win an island the other conquered Marshes, they subdued Boltons, without their help Targeryans were doomed in dance, they ruled for 8000 years , I mean come on 8000 years of badass and 300 years is a blink of an eye.They were rulers for 300 years and they had more rebellion then Starks ever had.

[Marten]

Yes, she might have had sex with other men. Just as all the other 20 or so Targaryen queens. To have it taint the entire bloodline seems a little to harsh. She was married to her own brother, who was also married with her sister. Not exactly the recipe for a safe and stable love life.

[The silver dragon]

Well I rather think it all equates to what you deem "badass" I think Rhaenys was Badass. She was a Dragon Rider, she lived her life how she chose, in a world which denied women autonomy, she burnt as much shit up on the field of fire as the other two. She loved life, and knew how to enjoy it, I think Visenya was Badass too, she was basically the monarch Aegon did sod all to run the country compared to her. Daeron I was cool as he conquored Dorne, which no other King had managed and he was just a kid!

Baelor's walk across the Desert is fucking amazing, Not military badassity, but fuck me I call that a man with guts and grit. and walking into the pit of Vipers to rescue Aemon the Dragonknight. Yea that is badass!

he might have been a god botherer who locked up his sisters (yea that bothers me about him) but boy did he have gumption.

Daena is a badass, she wanted to get out of the Maidenvault and get laid, and nothing was stopping her, I like a girl who follows her cunt. And she brazened it out during the pregnancy too. Girls got ovaries of steel.

Egg was awesome he said fuck it all and married for love, when politics really dictated he marry strategically. = Badass dude.

Alysanne leaving her husband for two years when he pissed her off. That's cool. Rhaenrya was one badass bitch she wasn't taking it lying down when Aegon usurped her! the woman was in labour for gods sake! and she was raging! she did what she had to and frankly I think she was awesome. BS the IT cut her, she had full frickin plate on. Pffff! stupid Maester biased BS.

Blood Raven is cool as fuck, no denying it.

Sheira Seastar seems pretty special too. I wish we had learnt more about her.

TBH I think I could go on. Shit loads of teh Targs were awesome, badass, & cool as fuck.

TBH I think Aegon I was one of the least interesting Targaryens.

besides egg ( who i consider a idealist idiot, and a weak hearted king), Rhaenrya who was not a very competent ruler during war time,( even aemond comments on this) Rhaenys ( the least cool of the siblings, seeing as visanya took the vale, and aegon the river-lands, but she only took stormlands with the help of Orys.)

none of those cool people you just named have descendants in the current targ line which makes them as a house less badass compared to the other houses.(who some of which are supposedly descended from demi gods).

[Maid So Fair]

There's only one thing I need to know about the situation, and as far as I'm concerned so should everybody else - whatever Rhaenys was or wasn't doing, Aegon didn't care and still loved her and made her son his heir. If he isn't concerned about Rheanys's behaviour and it's not an issue in their relationship, it's really nobody else's business. It worked for them. Rheanys was a badass and I just hope that whatever her sex life involved it made her happy.

OP: Maybe this should be a thread about how you think Rhaenys is a horrible person since your dislike seems to have little to do with the other Targs.

[Victor227]

There's no evidence at all regarding Rhaenys' infidelity. Really, there wasn't even the whole big 'thing' made over Rhaenyra and her children. Some couples and marriages just aren't that big on children, and there's good reason for it, especially in a feudal society. Perhaps Aegon wasn't infertile, but simply preferred that the dynasty be a smaller one. Heir and a spare may be the rule, but how many conflicts have been started in history with siblings going against one-another? As is, the order of Maegor and Aenys being born was bad enough to spark conflict. If there were another five or six Targaryens, there may well have been a premature Dance of the Dragons.

But right, seems to me that the mentions of rumors regarding Aenys' parentage was related to his being infirm and generally sickly as a child. When you consider where that eventually led, with Maegor's reign, it stands to reason that the maesters and historians were looking for an excuse, whether disparaging or praising House Targaryen.

[Forever May]

There's a pretty judgmental tone in this thread regarding the rumored infidelities of a fictional character. A fictional character who we don't really know much about as a character and only know about as a historical figure, mostly existing as a series of anecdotes. We also don't know the specifics of the dynamics or terms of Rhaenys's relationship with Aegon. If if Aenys weren't actually Aegon's son (a conclusion which seems to be largely based on his sickliness as a child - a parallel to a lot of theories about Sweetrobin Arryn, of course), he's still a Targaryen and has dragonblood.

I wanted to believe in the romance of the fable, so what can I say? As for the judgmental, we are talking about adultery. If you want to argue Rhaenys deserves the benefit of the doubt, then I will listen. But if she is guilty, it is an abhorrent thing.

[ummester]

I wanted to believe in the romance of the fable, so what can I say? As for the judgmental, we are talking about adultery. If you want to argue Rhaenys deserves the benefit of the doubt, then I will listen. But if she is guilty, it is an abhorrent thing.

:D There is your first mistake. GRRM (or at least ASoIaF, to me) is not pure romance. It's cynical romance - there is romance there but it's buried under the convoluted duality of human desire.

[Forever May]

This is not just a Targaryen thing.

Do you want to know what percentage of human females over the past half million years have pretended children sired by other men... were their husband/mate/partner's?

You speak as though this isn't a shameful thing. Yes, wanton behavior may be real and that is my whole point. Dis*illusioned.

[teemo]

:D There is your first mistake. GRRM (or at least ASoIaF, to me) is not pure romance. It's cynical romance - there is romance there but it's buried under the convoluted duality of human desire.

I agree completely...it's all cynical romance. That's one reason I love the books so much <3

[Forever May]

:D There is your first mistake. GRRM (or at least ASoIaF, to me) is not pure romance. It's cynical romance - there is romance there but it's buried under the convoluted duality of human desire.

I just smashed my forehead on the tabletop. I mean romance by the other definition, enchanting, I wasn't referring solely to sexual relationships. But then it is sort of the same thing. But I wanted to believe in the enchantment of the Targaryen bloodline, I should say.

[ummester]

I just smashed my forehead on the tabletop. I mean romance by the other definition, enchanting, I wasn't referring solely to sexual relationships. But then it is sort of the same thing. But I wanted to believe in the enchantment of the Targaryen bloodline, I should say.

Yes, both the sexual romance and the fantastical/enchanting romance in ASoIaF has a certain level of cynicism. There are no perfect knights, everything has flaws, even the magic.

If ASoIaF had fairies - they would probably be alcoholics :D

[Forever May]

And that is my point. no family is "pure" blooded. as at some point everyone had to marry outside the family no one can guarantee at least one son and one daughter each generation. So at some point someone has to marry someone else. At this point the Valaryons are as much targaryen as the Targaryens are! lol, and vice versa. This is why assessing a characters targness based upon blood percentage is ludicrous. Not least because that is not how genetics works.

Not necessarily. You are limiting your imagination. A father can do for his own daughter just as well as a brother and sister relationship. Anyway, my point was before Aegon the Conqueror, it seems the Targaryen bloodline was 100% for all we know. After the Conquest however, they deliberately arranged political marriages. There were more than a few. Even if you count the Velaryons as pure Valyrian, there are still other marriages to non Valyrian Houses.

And it does matter, because a lot of Dany fans base Dany's domination of the dragons on her blood. Which as I say, is under 15% Valyrian or so, but I can't be bothered doing an exact equation.

[Forever May]

Yes, both the sexual romance and the fantastical/enchanting romance in ASoIaF has a certain level of cynicism. There are no perfect knights, everything has flaws, even the magic.

If ASoIaF had fairies - they would probably be alcoholics :D

Please tell me you still believe in pretty princesses and gallant knights though. There's still hope for Jon and Sansa. I have to believe!

[ummester]

Please tell me you still believe in pretty princesses and gallant knights though. There's still hope for Jon and Sansa. I have to believe!

Umm - I don't want to disappoint you...

But I don't think it is that kind of saga that is heading that way :)