Jaqen H'ghar Was Paid to Kill Jon

[Kyll.Ing.]

It's possibly that Jaqen was sent to kill Ned. Ned wasn't supposed to be executed, and should've been in the group with Arya.

If so, sending a Faceless Man after him would have been one heck of a waste of money. A person with the wealth, means and motive to get rid of Ned via Faceless Man, could also have gone to the Black Cells and done the deed him-/herself. He was pretty helpless when Varys visited him, and he drank of the wineskin even though he suspected it could be poisoned. Had there been actual poison in it, Ned would have died and nobody would have had any questions. Even without access to poisons, he would have been rather easy to kill. For instance, hang up five or six more torches in his cell, seemingly as a gesture of goodwill, and let carbon monoxide do its thing. There is no need to shell out the cash required to hire a Faceless Man.

[unitron]

Its an interesting theory but I think it rather more likely that Arya was the target - not to be slain but to be recruited.

The only way that begins to make sense is if Syrio immediately, the very first day, sensed something about her and somehow got a message to FM headquarters practically overnight and JH made the crossing to Westeros in record time and...

It's not like she'd have been on their radar prior to that.

I'm pretty sure he was in KL on some other errand, although it wouldn't have been killing Ned, either, most likely.

Who would have wanted Ned dead? Cersei? Littlefinger? As we see, it wouldn't have taken much for either to sway Joffrey to handle that for them.

[The Killer Snark]

I entirely agree. It's not as if Ned wasn't ultimately suicidal enough to take care of his death on his own.

[Black Crow]

The only way that begins to make sense is if Syrio immediately, the very first day, sensed something about her and somehow got a message to FM headquarters practically overnight and JH made the crossing to Westeros in record time and...

But if Syrio and Jaquen are one and the same...

Something else to consider here is Longwaters' conversation with Jaime. He seemed very anxious about what might be found about the running of the prison and the inclusion of those three in the draft being given to Yoren. He was very particular about the authority for their transfer being given by Lord Eddard and that he had made a report about it. Yet Eddard was himself in prison and indeed dead before Yoren took delivery of them and left the city. Longwaters himself, to be fair to him, did not have anything to do with the prisoners himself. All of the day-to-day running of the place was done by Rugen - except when he was absent, acting out his Varys persona - and Rugen is a face changer like all the other Faceless Men.

Think about it :cool4:

[House Obama]

I am not feeling this theory because Jon took the black, so he forfeited all the claims he didn't know he have if the R+L=J is true. But, I am wondering why Braavos hates Jon... can someone explain it to me.

[The Killer Snark]

My theory is that someone in Braavos was privy to a prophecy that the conspirators in support of Aegon taking the throne at King's Landing somehow managed to tie to Jon. I know my theory has holes in it, people, but the reason I stuck it up anyway was to try and find a reason why H'Ghar was travelling in a cart to The Wall, because I find it highly suspicious that he would have been caught against his will from what we know about the guy.

Since I myself believe that Syrio Forel is still alive, and was not seen killed in either the novels or the series, I think that Black Crow could well be onto something here.

[Black Crow]

The point of Rugen's intervention is that he is able, by controlling the prison, to insert Jaqen into that transport to go north, unseen with Arya. In this connection its also worth noting that Rorge and Biter are terrified of him.

[The Chequered Raven]

But if Syrio and Jaquen are one and the same...

...

Think about it :cool4:

Interesting theory - but has the same problems as the "Syrio is still alive"-theories.

Syrio was last seen fighting Trant (in full armour) with a broken, wooden training-sword.

IF he was able to beat Trant - who would this not be known?

Very unlikely.

But I stll like the theory! :-)

I think he was not on a asassination-mission but on an intelligence-job.

Faceless men are well known as skilled killers, but changing faces makes them perfect for secret investigations...

[Faceless Man Friday]

While Syrio could be Jaqen, he would not have to be for the target to be Arya for recruitment. Bloodraven was recruiting Bran, maybe he used the FM for recruiting Arya? This may especially be true if there is a connection between the FM and the Children of the Forrest which some believe.

[JRRStark]

This is something that jumped to my mind after connecting stray dots a few weeks back. I don't know if it's been brought up here, but I've since come across someone online who'd come to exactly the same conclusion, to a T, so I'm not the only one in any case but I know it's not a well-travelled theory. First, what was H'ghar doing going to The Wall? Someone like H'ghar would have committed some act that would enable him to get carried there, after being captured on purpose, since we can assume that a Faceless Man of his elite skill would not have been taken against his will by some City Watch. Or perhaps the right person in power made sure that he was placed in the cage. Now who would he possibly be contracted to kill at The Wall, which otherwise he'd have no purpose going to. The logical answer is Jon Snow, who might not know his parentage but someone else may have done some research. Someone like Varys, who kills off Kevan Lannister despite regretting the death of a good man because it's politic to do so to sow strife between the Lannisters and Tyrells, someone whose real purpose is to further the interests of Aegon who he wishes to marry Dany, though if Aegon is really a Blackfyre then Jon, as the son of Rhaegar, has a better claim to the throne. And Maester Aemon is a Targaryen, and Varys is unsure whether coming into contact with Maester Aemon will give Jon an interest in his own ancestry, which really isn't that hard to work out. However, the apparent death of Jon Snow overrules the order H'ghar has been given to kill him, since the Red Gods have already been satisfied even if Jon has warged into Ghost or if he'll be resurrected by Mel. Exactly why Jaqen has diverted his steps to Hightower, however, is a mystery to me.

I agree he didn't get captured by the watch. But it seems a bit convoluted a way to get to the watch. They aren't exactly fussy, he could just turn up there and say let me in, easy since there are no walls or gates to get past. also how long was it known Jon was at the wall to set that all up. Rem how slowly news travels in westeros. He cannot have been there long to have hired a FM. As a target to kill there is no need for subterfuge, he is not protected in any way. And at the wall no-one much would care if he was killed.

No I have no idea what JH's motives are however I get the impression that his time with Arya was a road to damascus moment for him

[The Killer Snark]

JRR Stark - If H'Ghar was already in the area of King's Landing for another purpose, though, then it stands to reason the incompetent City Watch would not have captured an elite Faceless Man, and by road-cart really was the quickest way, and also the most convenient, to The Wall. And Arya being there would have been a bonus if she was someone he was interested in.

Faceless Man Friday - Trouble is, though, that I'm not convinced of a parallel relation in the text between Bran and Arya where Bloodraven is concerned, because Bloodraven being Bran's mentor points out a much more important parallel to another character also apparently mentored by a Targaryen 'great bastard' with supernatural ability, Daenarys being guided by Shiera Seastar, aka Quaithe. And no, I never came up with the Quaithe thing on my own, and in fact it totally skipped by me: but I was kicking myself when it was pointed out to me I hadn't joined the dots.

[Faceless Man Friday]

Faceless Man Friday - Trouble is, though, that I'm not convinced of a parallel relation in the text between Bran and Arya where Bloodraven is concerned, because Bloodraven being Bran's mentor points out a much more important parallel to another character also apparently mentored by a Targaryen 'great bastard' with supernatural ability, Daenarys being guided by Shiera Seastar, aka Quaithe. And no, I never came up with the Quaithe thing on my own, and in fact it totally skipped by me: but I was kicking myself when it was pointed out to me I hadn't joined the do

I see what you mean, but even if Shiera Seastar is Quaithe and is guiding Danny it does not mean that Bloodraven or someone else is not guiding other characters besides Bran. Afterall the Dragon (fire) has three heads but there were six direwolf pups (ice).

[Kyll.Ing.]

by road-cart really was the quickest way, and also the most convenient, to The Wall.

Elaborate on this, please...

Yoren's band was travelling to the Wall at a quite slow pace, due to the size of their party, their baggage, and the lack of a horse for every man. A lone rider could have done the journey a lot faster. At any rate, Jaqen ended up NOT travelling to the Wall. Use the five-year-gap as a sort of evidence, if you like: The execution of Ned happened before its supposed start, while Jon's time as a commander was to be bridged by the Gap. An eventual Jon assassination plot would have had more than five years to unfold, which would be plenty of time for a skilled Faceless Man to get to the Wall and do his bidding, or possibly fail. Though I suspect that for storytelling reasons, failure wasn't even an option. Martin needed a Faceless Man in Oldtown, and it would have made little sense to ditch Jaqen and send somebody else there after building him up so much with Arya. Jaqen was supposed to go to Oldtown all along.

Myself, I've began to wonder if Jaqen wasn't put into the party with the Wall in mind, but rather to interact with (free, kill, protect or interrogate) one of the prisoners. Note that this does include Jaqen himself, provided that his identity was stolen by a Faceless Man. It could be that Jaqen H'ghar was a cheap assassin from Lorath sent to kill Ned in case he got pardoned and sent to the Wall, and that the Faceless Man (Syrio?), out on an unrelated quest to gather information, decided to kill and replace the assassin, then travel with the Blacks for a while for a last interaction with Ned before he left for Oldtown. With Ned dead, the plan turned out moot, but either way Jaqen escaped long before the Wall, and went out to do other things.

There could have been other plans for interaction with Ned, during the travel to the Wall, but at any rate the plans were abandoned when he was beheaded. And I seriously doubt anybody would pay a Faceless Man to kill Ned on his way to the Wall, seeing as there were so many other, cheaper opportunities to have it done. For a start, his miserable conditions in the Black Cells could have had him killed without anybody batting an eye. Send a pawn there with a knife, and blame it on malnutrition, infection, sickness or suicide. Or the Golden Cloaks could have been sent to wipe out the party - heck, they actually did do that.

Another, obvious target would be Arya. Syrio Forel could have been a legit fencing teacher from Braavos, and met his grisly fate at the hands of Meryn Trant, but he would have had plenty of time to send a message to the Faceless Men notifying them of the excellent determination and skill of Ned Stark's daughter. He could have served as a talent scount for the House of Black and White, if you'd like. Jaqen could then have gone to give her a closer inspection, on his way to an unrelated quest in Oldtown.

Even Gendry could have been subject to their investigations, though it's never shown whether he interacted with Jaqen or not.

In short:

1) The Wall did not end up being Jaqen's target, and I bet it was never intended to.

2) Jaqen abandoned his persona before heading to Oldtown.

3) Travelling by Yoren's party was slower than going alone to the Wall, but in the end it seemed Jaqen fulfilled his business anyway.

4) Jon remained alive and kicking until being offed by somebody with no connections to the Faceless Men.

[unitron]

The point of Rugen's intervention is that he is able, by controlling the prison, to insert Jaqen into that transport to go north, unseen with Arya. In this connection its also worth noting that Rorge and Biter are terrified of him.

Now that theory actually makes some sense. It takes care of the "how did they manage to arrest hm and put him in there on what charge if he didn't want to be arrested (seems that would be kinda like trying to arrest Syrio or Barristan Selmy)", he gets put there when Ned is expected to join Yoren's Wall-bound group, so perhaps assigned by Rugen/Varys to serve as unsuspected security for Ned 'til he gets to the wall.

And it could be he'd been in town long enough to familiarize himself with Ned's family and retinue, so recognized Arya, despite her impromptu haircut, and keeps his lockpicks in their hiding places to stay on the wagon and keep an eye on her. Or maybe he just figures in the wagon is as good a way of getting out of KL as any now that there's no Ned to worry about.

I have no interest in him being Syrio in disguise. I want Syrio to be just what he seems, no more, no less.

(But I do want him to still be alive and set to play a major part in the as yet unpublished continuation of the storyline )

I can deal with JH being the guy in Oldtown who took over the kid's place, although that raises the question

of why he was in KL instead of there and why his mission there was unimportant enough that he could put it on the back burner and do the prisoner going to the Wall routine.

[unitron]

Why would varys Do something like that. Why would he be that concern about a bastard who renounce all claim to land. An assassination plot seem more up Cercei alley, but she wasn't on good term with Braavos

Not to mention that though later on after a bunch of other stuff happens Cersei is interested in killing a Night's Watch Lord Commander named Jon Snow, at this point Ned is still alive and his bastard boy is just a raw recruit in a place from which few return, and as likely as not to be Other fodder before long anyway.

[starwalker]

We can't really be sure what a Faceless Man was doing in King's Landing. Based off of Arya's training, and the mythology preached to her by the kindly man, I think it is unlikely that they are anything more than assassin's. Vary's has a very powerful system of spies in place in King's Landing. It is possible that he somehow got wind of a Faceless Man sneaking around in his city. If he was up to something Vary's didn't approve of, Vary's himself could have caught him and put him in the black cells. Based on the epilogue from ADWD, it would seem that Vary's is a supporter of the Targaryens. If Jon is indeed a Targaryen(he would still be a bastard though, as there was no indication that Lyanna and Rhaegar married). So a thin case can be made that H'Gar was sent to kill Jon. Braavos has no love for Valyria, being descended from escaped Valyrian slaves. And he could have turned aside in his mission once Daenarys started freeing slaves herself. We have also seen two foreign powers meddling in the affairs of Westeros already. Illyrio and Varys representing the Pentoshi, while it would appear the Iron Bank is preparing to back Stannis.

Thats a whole lotta ifs though, but its worth a discussion at least. Kill some time til WoW like a Faceless Man.

[Luddagain]

Way out theory but what if the KoM IS Bloodraven or at least is part of the weirwood net. There are lots of weirwood items. Just as BR has been watching Bran for years, so too have the FM been watching Arya. Ja'quar was sent to KL to recruit Arya.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

If JH was intentionally trying to get handed over to the Night's Watch, his target was probably the same as the one we see him pursuing in the Citadel - information. He was after access to the archives.

The Faceless Men are far more than just assassins - they are also intelligence gatherers. Arya, with her constant requirement to bring back "three new things", was being trained to gather and objectively filter intel.

JH didn't murder Pate because someone put out a contract on him. JH did it to gain access to the Citadel. He also obtained the master key in the process. He's probably after secret documents. He was probably on the same mission before. Castle Black is known to have a killer collection of documents that are unobtainable anywhere else in Westeros.

[Black Crow]

Bear in mind also the ordinary nature of justice in Westeros. It tends to be brief. Rope is cheap and criminals [or reputed criminals] tend to be dealt with swiftly whether dangled or sent to the Wall. The Black Cells are no place for "common men" which is one reason why Longwaters is so twitchy. Ned Stark, Bloodraven and Pycelle go to the Black Cells. "Common men" don't rate that grade of accommodation - they go into the common lock-up in Gin Alley, not the Red Keep, far less the Black Cells.

So why are Rorge and Biter in there?

Answer; they are providing cover for Jaqen H'gar so that he doesn't stand out as the one and only, and its Rugen who put them all in there - and released them.

[Joe Pine]

At the time JH is in the cells, Ned Stark is alive, Jon's presumably only recently arrived at that wall.

I don't think the target is Jon. The plot on Ned is afoot, Ned was to go to the wall. It's assumed at the time Arya would have been found by the City Watch. Robb is yet to call his banners.

Varys is privy to the small council's schemes, he may or may not be acting for Bravos, did he place JH with Yoren?

I'd see Ned as the target if they intended him to go with Yoren's group. Would Maester Aemon or Jeor Mormont be in the sights of the faceless men? Maybe Varys would be more interested in destabilising the Night's Watch, resulting in the Starks and the Norths attention being taken from the South?

Ned's death wasn't planned by Varys or Littlefinger. The war of the five kings wasn't inevitable at that point, although both Stannis and Renly had went to their castles.