Jaqen H'ghar Was Paid to Kill Jon

[nickdt]

Rugen was not the only guard..

I believe he was the only guard of the BC.

[Black Crow]

And the one writing the reports.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I believe he was the only guard of the BC.

And the two that had actually been at the door of Tyrions cell when he escaped just happened to be there?

There were at least two more, besides Rugen. Makes sense, as Rugen wasn't always available...

It is also quite a leap to go from "Rugen is Varys' secret persona" to "Varys must be working with the FM", imo.

[nickdt]

And the two that had actually been at the door of Tyrions cell when he escaped just happened to be there?

There were at least two more, besides Rugen. Makes sense, as Rugen wasn't always available...

It is also quite a leap to go from "Rugen is Varys' secret persona" to "Varys must be working with the FM", imo.

In order to make this theory work, it is. If Syrio is really Jaqen, then Varys knows who he is. The two other guards can have guarded the door, while Rurys brought him food and so the two others guards didn't know that Syrio had changed his face.

[Wings]

“Come dawn, Pinkeye and the others were back, all but one boy who’d been killed in the fighting for no reason that anyone could say" Arya ACOK CH 47

This happens the same night Jaqen changes his face and leaves.

Good catch! Probably a face used during the escape.

I don't think they have to kill in order to take over a face. They probably have faces at the ready, from previous kills or kills by others. They "kill and take over" trick is used for infiltration. That's why Jaqen killed Pate.

So I think "pre-fire Jaqen" really was a terrible criminal and "post-fire Jaqen" is a FM. It may be that we didn't meet this FM before , or that he was someone else with Yoren's party, like one of the men in the watchtower who survived.. and that means he could be Syrio, if you give any possibilty of credence to the many hints (e.g.,whispers) and possible parallels (see Barristan's escape) that might support the idea.

In order for this to have happened it means that the FM impersonating Jaqen was already present with the group since they left KL, otherwise he would not be able to impersonate Jaqen so well. The "sweet boy, lovely boy" comments as well as the Lorathi accent is not something you'd just pick up when coming across Jaqen's body (face).

Also, when Arya and the others go back to the barn, they check on the cage, but they make no mention of there being a body inside and I cannot imagine Rorge and Biter trying to drag Jaqen out if he was weakened.

The only reason I can think of for Jaqen to be in the black cells is if he was Syrio. Syrio being confirmed "dead" by GRRM could be the same as Jaqen being called dead in the books. But why would they place Syrio in the black cells rather than kill him in the fight? Do they fear insulting Braavos by killing the First Sword? It seems so unlikely, since they even killed Septa Mordane.

[Black Crow]

The only reason I can think of for Jaqen to be in the black cells is if he was Syrio. Syrio being confirmed "dead" by GRRM could be the same as Jaqen being called dead in the books. But why would they place Syrio in the black cells rather than kill him in the fight? Do they fear insulting Braavos by killing the First Sword? It seems so unlikely, since they even killed Septa Mordane.

I dare say that incarceration in the black cells might be considered a fate worse than death and thus a suitable punishment.

As to Syrio being dead, yes indeed, he is dead in the sense that he's gone and aint coming back again and if "he" was indeed a faceless man its more than likely that the real Syrio died long before Arya ever met her dancing master.

[sirajelalem]

Edit: please delete, accidental post

[BrainFireBob]

I assumed one of the following:

1) Aemon was his target, he had sources that reported he went south

2) Information on dragons is his mission, so he is either destroying information or seeking it. He went to King's Landing (last home of dragons), the Citadel (center of learning), and was at one point on a path to reach the Wall (oldest continuous records in Westeros). He may have already been on Dragonstone.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I assumed one of the following:

1) Aemon was his target, he had sources that reported he went south

2) Information on dragons is his mission, so he is either destroying information or seeking it. He went to King's Landing (last home of dragons), the Citadel (center of learning), and was at one point on a path to reach the Wall (oldest continuous records in Westeros). He may have already been on Dragonstone.

1) if Aemon was the target, Jaqen turned south quite some time before Aemon did... And as the power to see into the future isn't likely...

2) this pile very well be, but why give up on going to the Wall? And why go as a prisoner, and not disguised as a Westerosi who volunteers?

Really, it doesn't seem like going to the Wall was ever Jaqen's goal...

[bemused]

Good catch! Probably a face used during the escape.

I don't think they have to kill in order to take over a face. They probably have faces at the ready, from previous kills or kills by others. They "kill and take over" trick is used for infiltration. That's why Jaqen killed Pate.

In order for this to have happened it means that the FM impersonating Jaqen was already present with the group since they left KL, otherwise he would not be able to impersonate Jaqen so well. The "sweet boy, lovely boy" comments as well as the Lorathi accent is not something you'd just pick up when coming across Jaqen's body (face).

Also, when Arya and the others go back to the barn, they check on the cage, but they make no mention of there being a body inside and I cannot imagine Rorge and Biter trying to drag Jaqen out if he was weakened.

The only reason I can think of for Jaqen to be in the black cells is if he was Syrio. Syrio being confirmed "dead" by GRRM could be the same as Jaqen being called dead in the books. But why would they place Syrio in the black cells rather than kill him in the fight? Do they fear insulting Braavos by killing the First Sword? It seems so unlikely, since they even killed Septa Mordane.

Yes, and it's very possible that the FM was with the party all the way from KL or soon after. Yoren's party was ,I think, 50 strong, and we meet very few of them. The others didn't come from the Black Cells and were kept waiting on the streets of KL since Yoren expected Ned to be joining them .. since that point and going forward, a FM could have subbed himself in at any time ( during calls of nature, gathering firewood, scavenging, etc.)

I think that particularly the three men who survived in the watchtower (probably the poacher) are likely candidates.

I agree that Rorge and Biter would probably not help Jaqen if he was in rough shape.. that's part of my point.

Jaqen made the point to Arya (and the reader) that he was separate from R&B .. that he was only with them because he had no choice. He didn't choose his companions. So they were never a trio, but a pair and a single.

During the fire, I think Jaqen shows definite signs of suffering from smoke inhalation.Why was he not shouting and cursing or screaming like R&B? Why was he just sitting, not struggling, shaking the bars , pulling at his chains? ... It was too difficult to (even) speak .

Rorge caught the axe and began chopping at the floor. Of course he would help Biter - Biter was his creature, his creation ... but with the barn on the verge of collapse, would they delay to help Jaqen ? I think not.

I dare say that incarceration in the black cells might be considered a fate worse than death and thus a suitable punishment.

As to Syrio being dead, yes indeed, he is dead in the sense that he's gone and aint coming back again and if "he" was indeed a faceless man its more than likely that the real Syrio died long before Arya ever met her dancing master.

This is pretty much what I expect is coming. I can't help feeling that Syrio Forel was probably first sword to the Sealord of the pact between Darry and Doran - and that probably, "the knives came out" before (but just before) the Sealord was dead... perhaps Darry's illness would not otherwise have claimed him so soon. If underhanded business was at work, Syrio Forel's expertise with a sword would not have helped him.

Just my suspicion.