The Five Forts

[LmL]

As far as which cultures existed prior to the Long Night, certainly the GEotD, whatever it was, ended at the Long Night. The Fisher Queen kingdoms of the Silver Sea seems almost certainly pre-LN. The Rhoynar have a legend about the Long Night, which indicates their ancestors existed at that time and have passed the story down. GHhis, however, I do not think is pre-LN. The wiki is wrong on this, according to TWOIAF, which says: "As Westeros was recovering from the Long Night, a new power was rising in Essos." It goes on to say that Essos eels to be where civilization developed (this is still in the wake of the LN here), and the first one was probably Ghis. That indicates Ghis was the first empire to emerge after the anarchy, starvation, and mass death that would have occurred during a long night scenario. It seems like the GEotD and the Fisher Queen kingdoms were destroyed in the LN, as most organized forms of civilization would have.

Remember that the story of the GEotD is that they did not reform after the LN. So Yi Ti is not the GEotD. The GEotD is a memory Yi Ti has of an advanced civilization which ruled eastern Essos and was destroyed in the LN disaster. The borders given for the GEoTD is essentially everything east of the Bones that is not a wasteland... including Leng. That's a huge empire, and sitting in the richest part of the world. Then, we have Asshai, the biggest city in the world, sitting on the end of a peninsula that originates squarely inside the given borders of the GEoTD. I mean, who built the biggest city in the world? A great empire, logic would dictate. I do not think it was built out of oily stone by black sorcerers, myself. I tend to think it's far more likely a huge metropolis like that would have been built by an advanced, golden age type culture like the GEotD, when the peninsula was still a healthy place to live, and later corrupted through black magic along with the entire shadowlands. I really don't think the shadowlands are just like that... something happened.

EDIT: I agree with most of your last comment.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Goddamn this stupid Great Empire of Dawn.

Thanks Obara!

[LmL]

Direct your complaints to George R. R. Martin. ;)

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I still think Yi Ti will play a role in the next Long Night, we may just hear about it, not see, but we will. There are theories that Daenerys will go to Qarth again, but I don't believe she'll ever set foot in Yi Ti, Asshai we are sure, as Martin said we will only have flashbacks of that city (Probably in Mel's POV).

[Ramsay Gimp]

I just wana say, Lucifer=LB, that I really enjoy reading your theories even if I think you go off the deep end with some of the Gemstone Emperor/Dawn Empire stuff I wish there was more discussion about the 5 Forts, Stygai, Black Stone, and all the other weird stuff from the worldbook. Even if the naysayers are right and none of this stuff is important to the main story, it is still very fun and interesting to explore

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

I think George would never include stuff like that just for nothing, not saying everything will be imporant to ASOIAF, but I am sure those blackstones will. I won't be surprised if they show up in TWOW.

[Adam de Felden]

In my view the only way that the blackstone will play a noticeable part in the story is if the wall does turn out to have it at the base, which is likely. Otherwise they will be nothing more than background, I would like to learn more about them, but I doubt we will.

[Jon Fossoway]

I think the Five Forts were made from whatever civilization from further east to prevent people from goin over there. As I see it, all the black stone buildings are located in the cardinal points of Planetos. As if like they were built by another civilization. Way more advanced. Maybe whatever lies at the east of Essos and the west of Westeros.

[LmL]

George said we won't visit Asshai. But he never said we won't see/go east of Qarth. So the possibility of a POV from Yi Ti is plausible

It's interesting to note that the grey plague is sweeping through Yi Ti at the moment.

I happen to think we could get our look at Asshai view glass candle vision, instead of flashback. Sure, Mel could have a flashback, but I think a glass candle vision would be cooler. As I discovered in my Children of the Dawn essay, Marwyn is heading to Dany in slavers bay with a glass candle and a desire to help her in any way he can. I think Dany will soon be using the candles herself and learning some interesting things, just as Bran is through the weirwood.

Oh and thanks for the nice words Ramsay Gimp. I don't know if I have interpreted everything correctly (surely not) but there can be no doubt by anyone who has looked at this body of evidence that there ARE patterns here to be interpreted and puzzles to be solved. I hope that at least by pointing out the patterns, I'm opening them up for everyone to try to interpret. It's all about crowd sourcing this stuff, it's really complex. George has so much going on behind the scenes. I've never read a book containing so many sentences with double and even triple meanings. We are all so lucky, IMO, and blessed with art of this caliber being created in our lifetime. It's basically as if Tolkien has hidden the silmarillion in metaphors inside the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

The only losers here are the ones who shut their minds off to the depth of what George is doing with these novels because of their own limited imaginations, their own fixed idea of what the novel is or isn't, and their own internal biases about myth and ancient man vs. empirical science and modern rationalism / materialism. We can only pray for them, or ignore them. This is literally true, because these fools never address the point of an argument - all they have are blanket dismissals and scoffing. This is the hallmark of a fool - dismissal of things they haven't taken the time to try to understand.

George is the patternmaker, we are the initiates. We are supposed to study this stuff and come up with the answers.

[LmL]

Hey guys....

“We have a new king now,” Cersei Lannister replied. “Lord Eddard, when last we spoke, you gave me some counsel. Allow me to return the courtesy. Bend the knee, my lord. Bend the knee and swear fealty to my son, and we shall allow you to step down as Hand and live out your days in the grey waste you call home.” “Would that I could,” Ned said grimly. If she was so determined to force the issue here and now, she left him no choice. “Your son has no claim to the throne he sits. Lord Stannis is Robert’s true heir.”

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

It's interesting to note that the grey plague is sweeping through Yi Ti at the moment.

I happen to think we could get our look at Asshai view glass candle vision, instead of flashback. Sure, Mel could have a flashback, but I think a glass candle vision would be cooler. As I discovered in my Children of the Dawn essay, Marwyn is heading to Dany in slavers bay with a glass candle and a desire to help her in any way he can. I think Dany will soon be using the candles herself and learning some interesting things, just as Bran is through the weirwood.

Oh and thanks for the nice words Ramsay Gimp. I don't know if I have interpreted everything correctly (surely not) but there can be no doubt by anyone who has looked at this body of evidence that there ARE patterns here to be interpreted and puzzles to be solved. I hope that at least by pointing out the patterns, I'm opening them up for everyone to try to interpret. It's all about crowd sourcing this stuff, it's really complex. George has so much going on behind the scenes. I've never read a book containing so many sentences with double and even triple meanings. We are all so lucky, IMO, and blessed with art of this caliber being created in our lifetime. It's basically as if Tolkien has hidden the silmarillion in metaphors inside the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

The only losers here are the ones who shut their minds off to the depth of what George is doing with these novels because of their own limited imaginations, their own fixed idea of what the novel is or isn't, and their own internal biases about myth and ancient man vs. empirical science and modern rationalism / materialism. We can only pray for them, or ignore them. This is literally true, because these fools never address the point of an argument - all they have are blanket dismissals and scoffing. This is the hallmark of a fool - dismissal of things they haven't taken the time to try to understand.

George is the patternmaker, we are the initiates. We are supposed to study this stuff and come up with the answers.

:agree:

He is not just making up stuff for nothing, most of the things have a connection to the main story (ASOIAF), why is Bran learning what happened in the past if it's not imporant? Of course the past has clues to help us solve the mysteries.

[Jon Fossoway]

I wonder what kind of "raiders" are those who come to attack the Five Forts, being the fortresses even bigger than the Wall, and 50 brothers held against thousands of wildlings with mamoths and giants. Also, if the Grey Plague is ravaging Yi Ti maybe those raiders actually managed to defeat whoever guards the Forts and bring the plague into Essos

[LmL]

yep I've had that thought too. Mithras is a fan of this idea. Sothoryos might be similar. The entire continent overrun with genetic hybrid monsters. The Summer Islanders fled their native home - (Africa) - and now live on the islands. They have a fuzzy memory of "colonies" on Sothoryos, but they've never colonized anywhere, nor gone to war with another people. I think it's more likely that they were driven from Sothoryos by all the monsters. Over time these memories shifted to ideas about colonies.