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C.T. Phipps

The Ironborn history is nightmarish, isn't it?

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It's strange but in a book of murder, adultery, kinslaying, and worse: It's the Ironborn's history which fills me with genuine revulsion. I was hoping Balon Greyjoy would prove to be an anomaly but it seems he's actually fairly tame by the standards of his society if not outright progressive. The entire history of the Iron Islands is one long series of atrocities after another with the entire culture poisonous from the roots up.



It's as close to getting to, "A culture which worships rape and pillage" as you can probably get.



The Dothraki, by comparison, are pretty pleasant.



At least with them, you can buy them off.



The Ironborn prefer to take by force no matter what.



What was your reaction to them?


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Yeah, absolutely deplorable. I felt kind of sick reading all about the Ironborn in the book.


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I agree, I was hit by wave after wave of revulsion, and tbh I wasn't keen on them before TWOAIF. Now, eee gods I hope they don't triumph.


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What I found facinating is that the Hoares are met with disdane in Westeros and the Isles - "the black taint". Yet as you go through the chapter you discover a couple of them tried to secure a more diplomatic relationship with the rest of the regions. Embrasing the Seven, intermarrying with Greenlanders.


But the priests put an end to it. I thought that was a real nice spin on it.



That said some of the Hoares were even worst than than the Greyjoys and Greyirons. Plus their arms are their holdings in chains! :devil:



Disapointed by hardly anything on Dagon Greyjoy - from what we know he was probably the last really successful Ironborn leader. Maybe its being saved for a Dunk and Egg story?


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The 1 thing I loved was how the Ironborn really raped the Westerlands during the Dance of Dragons. It basically confirmed what people have been saying for years as to how Balon should have attacked the westerlands rather than the north. On top of everything the westerlands only lost 1 army in the Dance of dragons and were still half conquered by the Ironborn(raiding at will as the term used).


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The 1 thing I loved was how the Ironborn really raped the Westerlands during the Dance of Dragons. It basically confirmed what people have been saying for years as to how Balon should have attacked the westerlands rather than the north. On top of everything the westerlands only lost 1 army in the Dance of dragons and were still half conquered by the Ironborn(raiding at will as the term used).

And do you recall what happened next for the Ironborn? The Westermen and the Reachmen came over and payed back in kind. So Balon attacking the Westerlands would have been awesome for House Stark, but brought down Seven Hells on House Greyjoy when the Greenlanders retaliated.

And no king on the throne, not Renly, Stannis, Joffrey or anyone else would ever allow some Ironborn separatists to separate the Westerlands from the realm. Retaliation would have been a matter of time and there are no natural defenses in the right direction for the Ironborn to hide behind.

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The 1 thing I loved was how the Ironborn really raped the Westerlands during the Dance of Dragons. It basically confirmed what people have been saying for years as to how Balon should have attacked the westerlands rather than the north. On top of everything the westerlands only lost 1 army in the Dance of dragons and were still half conquered by the Ironborn(raiding at will as the term used).

Yes, and then the Westerlands retaliated. Usually Ironborn expeditions into the Westerlands have been turned around into Westerland invasions of the Iron Islands. Balon did indeed know his history.

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Yes, and then the Westerlands retaliated. Usually Ironborn expeditions into the Westerlands have been turned around into Westerland invasions of the Iron Islands. Balon did indeed know his history.

Which is exactly why he attacked the West in his first rebellion, lol

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.



And no king on the throne, not Renly, Stannis, Joffrey or anyone else would ever allow some Ironborn separatists to separate the Westerlands from the realm. Retaliation would have been a matter of time and there are no natural defenses in the right direction for the Ironborn to hide behind.





No king would allow them to separate the North from the rest of the realm as well.








Which is exactly why he attacked the West in his first rebellion, lol





LOL!


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Which is exactly why he attacked the West in his first rebellion, lol

Well, it's probably why the destruction of the Lannisport fleet is so important. But yeah, the Ironborn should really just stay home. Attacking anyone is idiotic, but Balon was an idiot. But I do think the reason he fears Tywin is because he knows the Lannisters might have resources to take the fight back to the Iron Islands. I think the reason he chose to attack the North is not because the North would be easy to conquer (it's obviously one of the hardest places to conquer), but because the North lack a Western fleet and can't retaliate.

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Well, it's probably why the destruction of the Lannisport fleet is so important. But yeah, the Ironborn should really just stay home. Attacking anyone is idiotic, but Balon was an idiot. But I do think the reason he fears Tywin is because he knows the Lannisters might have resources to take the fight back to the Iron Islands. I think the reason he chose to attack the North is not because the North would be easy to conquer (it's obviously one of the hardest places to conquer), but because the North lack a Western fleet and can't retaliate.

I agree, which is why Balon should have asked Tywin for an alliance before attacking The North and not after. That was easily his dumbest move in the entire war, IMO.

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The book does give us this classic Ironborn moment with Balon and Robert.

"No Ironborn has ever kneeled to a Baratheon."

"Be the first."

"...okay."

LOL

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No king would allow them to separate the North from the rest of the realm as well.

LOL!

Well yeah, end of the day, so long as other lords desired to be top dog, the idea of separating ends in hard core conflict.

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The ironborn were incredible shown to me, better then all the other kingdoms. I wished the lords of the crownlands and Dornish had similar treatment but we take what is given. The lords of the Isles were not black and white at all, there were some good kings, bad kings and dumbasses and smart cookies.


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The ironborn were incredible shown to me, better then all the other kingdoms. I wished the lords of the crownlands and Dornish had similar treatment but we take what is given. The lords of the Isles were not black and white at all, there were some good kings, bad kings and dumbasses and smart cookies.

Pretty much this.

I also think that Yandel is somewhat biased about the Ironborn. I mean they certainly are mor warlike and brutal than the rest of Westeros, I have no doubt about that, but he certainly focused on the bad ironborn kings more than the good ones.

Compare that to how he dealt with bad Lannister kings like Tyrion the Tormentor or Norwin the Niggardly. He wrote one sentence about them. About the bad ironborn he wrote several pages while there was relatively little about some of the better Hoare kings.

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Theon isn't the first Greyjoy to be "Reeked" :eek:



After the Red Kraken's death, one of his sons was captured by Lady Lannister, gelded, and made into her son's fool at Casterly Rock


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