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Why did Ned take Sansa and Arya to Kings Landing?


Ser Vampyr

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Ned also planned to take Bran to King's Landing as well but his fall changed that plan.



Sansa is going because she is betrothed to Joffrey, she already acts like a proper lady so the thought is that she belongs at court.



Arya is going because then maybe she will learn to be more lady-like instead of a major tomboy.



I forget the reasoning behind why he was going to take Bran.



Robb was to stay to be the male Stark in Winterfell (acting Lord with Catelyn).



Rickon is staying because he is too young (IIRC).



Jon Snow is a bastard and should not be at court...and he took the black.



These are simple, one sentence answers...each could be expanded upon if needed. But this is the gist of it.


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Well, Sansa was betrothed to Robert's eldest son, making her the future queen, so that only makes sense. With Arya, perhaps he felt getting away from the (wilder) North to King's Landing would help make her less a tomboy and more a lady? It's difficult to know for sure.



(edit: a minute too late to Ser Cold Fingers :))


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He didn't take Jon because he's a bastard and as a result is seen as unsuitable to be at court. Robb is the heir to Winterfell and because Women are seen as weak by the men Robb rules the North in Neds place. Bran was going to go and was looking forward to going until he was crippled by Jamie. Rickon is simply too young in AGOT as he is 3. Arya went most likely because Ned wanted her to learn the customs of Ladyhood before she marries a Lordling. Sansa is already betrothed to Joffery.


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He didn't take Jon because he's a bastard and as a result is seen as unsuitable to be at court. Robb is the heir to Winterfell and because Women are seen as weak by the men Robb rules the North in Neds place. Bran was going to go and was looking forward to going until he was crippled by Jamie. Rickon is simply too young in AGOT as he is 3. Arya went most likely because Ned wanted her to learn the customs of Ladyhood before she marries a Lordling. Sansa is already betrothed to Joffery.

I don't see what Robb being the acting lord has to do with women being seen as weak. He was the eldest child, not just the eldest son, so it's not like they weren't giving a chance to an older sister to rule. Catelyn was going to practically rule in Ned's absence, but "there must be a Stark in Winterfell", and she is not a Stark by blood.

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One reason that they wanted to bring Bran was so that him and Joffery could be friends. because it's obvious that Robb and Joffery hate each other so they are hoping that Bran can rebuild that bridge

This. And Bran wants to be a Kingsguard and his father knows it,so he is taking him to show him the ropes,so to speak.

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  • 3 weeks later...

One reason that they wanted to bring Bran was so that him and Joffery could be friends. because it's obvious that Robb and Joffery hate each other so they are hoping that Bran can rebuild that bridge

Yep. Ned states to Catelyn that he hopes Bran can forge a friendship with Joffrey much like Ned and Robert had in the past...thus ensuring greater safety/power for their family in the future.

Unfortunately they had no idea what a monster that monster was.

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  • 2 months later...

Wasn't it Tommen. not joffery?

No: Tommen and Bran have a traning fight with wooden swords in the yard (that Arya witnesses together with Jon after running out of her needlework class). Brann wins easily from Tommen. Meanwhile they're cheered on by Robb and men in service of the Starks as well as Joffrey, the Hound and several men of KL. It kinda becomes a jeering match between those supporters. When Tommen loses, Joffrey disses on the training fights. A new challenge is proposed Robb against Joffrey (and Robb won one before against Joffrey if I recall correctly). But the master in arms doesn't allow the use of real steel. They'll have to fight with wooden training swords. Joffrey uses that as an excuse to refuse the challenge (I'm not a kid, so if you lot Starks want to play-fight with wooden swords, then I'll leave you to your kid's game). Robb must then be restrained. Of course, Joffrey is the real craven here, but he simply masks it by making himself more than he is.

This is an example of the rivarly and animosity between Joffrey and Robb. Mind you: it's the example we witness AFTER it's already been decided that Ned will take on the job of King's Hand and who's to come to KL. So, that rivalry and animosity must have been clear already before that yard scene.

So, back to the events and comments that lead to "who goes to KL with Ned":

- Robert asks him for the job and also proposes to join their houses finally with a marriage between Sansa and Joffrey (to make up for the fact they weren't able to join houses a generation earlier because of Lyanna's death).

- Ned talks this over with Cat. Initially he doesn't want to accept the Hand's position and he has his doubts of Joffrey being good enough for his daughter Sansa; on top of that he reveals feelings that he's taken by surprise to arrange a marriage for his Sansa already (she was still a child in his mind).

- Meanwhile Cat tries to persuade him to accept it for all the power he would have, the influence he may have, etc (we also know from a previous chapter of hers that she never really adapted to Northern ways and thinking). And she reasons with him that she was only two years older than Sansa when she was supposed to marry Ned's brother, Brandon, who was supposed to be the new lord of WF (not Ned)

- This all reminds Ned (again) of Robert's Rebellion, or more precisely WHY Robert and Ned went to war againt the Mad King: Brandon and Rickard Stark had been killed by the Mad King in KL. And Brandon rushed off to KL and got himself in a pickle with the Mad King in the first place because Lyanna had been kidnapped by the Mad King's heir, Prince Rhaegar. And Ned finds it all just a bigger argument against becoming Hand and going to KL, or have his daughter marry Joffrey.

(I'm pointing this all out, because we read the conversation from Cat's POV, not Ned's. We therefore cannot actually read Ned's thoughts during the conversation, but keeping the background in mind to which Cat refers to, Ned's described facial expression and bitter tone reveals where his thoughts are almost entirely throughout the conversation.)

- Enter Maester Luwin with Lysa's message that Jon Arryn didn't just die from an illness or old age, but because he was poisoned. Ned initially ceises this as an extra argument to stay away from KL. But he has both Cat and Aemon arguing to accept the position: to bring justice for Jon Arryn's death, to protect Lysa's son, and to protect his foster brother, king Robert. They play him like a fiddle: on his honour, on his feelings of responsibility as sole male related protector of his nephew-in-law, and on his love for Robert. And so he caves in.

- Now we come to "who gets to go with him to KL then and who gets to stay?":

Robb must remain at WF, because there must always be a Stark at WF, and it's no use to Lord the North from KL. But Robb's too yoong to actually govern on his own, and Cat must in fact rule (like Robb's regent) and train Robb into governing by inculding him in her council. Meanwhile RIckon at the age of three is still yoo young to be taken away from his mother.

- On the other hand,l if he accepts the position of the Hand, he can't at the same time refuse Sansa marrying Joffrey. So, she must marry him (though he dislikes Joff already). If Sansa's supposed to become a queen she better get acquainted with KL court life from the get go.

One daughter betrothed to the heir, and before long Ned will have all type of men and fathers proposing a marriage for his second daughter. So, he realizes he must consider Arya too all of a sudden as marriage material or at least a girl some ambitious men will want to marry. Is it safer to leave a desirable bride behind in the vast North (and possible rivalling houses), way past the Neck and too far far away KL, with only a skeleton crew to guard and a 14 year old boy as an official ruler? Or is it safer to have her at least living in the red keep with 200 guards and no one openly is expected to do any harm to the Hand or his family? And remember that Arya is like Lyanna in Ned's eyes, remember that Lyanna was kidnapped, and that Ned himself is regularly reminded of this before and during the conversation where he decides to take Arya.

Obviously it is not what he says to Cat, but what he actually says to Cat "she must learn more southron ways to become a lady" (while sounding logical) is not really how he acts on KR and in KL with regards to Arya's upbringing. He lets her ride and explore the country road, receives her gathered wild flowers with a smile, he hires the prior first sword of Braavos to instruct his daughter in handling Needle, he does not require her to attend the Tourney (he's not even a fan of Sansa going). Ned gives a complete logical and short explanation to Cat for taking Arya with him, but his actions later on do not agree with Ned really believing that argument. I think that Ned's real but undisclosed reason for taking Arya with him is that he considers a vied for daughter guarded by only a skeleton crew and a 14 year old Lord of WF is too much of a risk and too much of a temptation for ambitious fathers or heirs of certain houses.

- Lastly Bran: Ned has learned that there's a bad feeling between Joffrey and Robb. Both are heirs and will have to get along. Ned was fostered to Jon Arryn, like Robert was, and both thought of each other as brothers afterwards, even if they were not by blood or marriage. Bran is a likeable, social boy and would easily become friends with the princes (well Tommen at least). And of course we know from Bran himself that he desires to be a knight, preferable a KingsGuard. Bran is not taken along, only because he fell a day before they originally planned to leave WF.

It seems contradictory that Ned who regards KL as a viper's nest would take his children along. But also consider that Jon Arryn lived for many many years before his life ended; that Lysa and Sweetrobin were not attacked themselves. The last thing Ned expects is an open threat or attack to himself, let alone his children and his household, OR that Robert will die soon (he's still young and full of vigour).

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