Mossovy, CotF?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Also I think the Ifequevron are children of the forest, or kin to them.

As I think the Cities of Bloodless Men refers to cities of wights and the Five Forts are the equivalent of the Wall, the Grey Waste sounds a lot like Beyond the Wall and close to them is the Lands of Shrykes

[bens]

I agree. I think the Ifeqevron were also the Children of the Forest. Mossovy is less conclusive.

[Mithras]

Shapechangers are actually changelings and the rich history about various monsters stealing human babies confirm this notion.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Are the people who are saying that the cotf created the Iron Islands with the hammer of the waters saying that the Iron Isles were raised out of the water? Or are you saying that it use to be 1 big island that was split kind of like the stepstones. If so I could get on board with that.

In addition to what was originally posted in the theory about Naggas bones, the worldbook provides more evidence. Apparently the Grey king made his first ship out of a pale demon tree that ate human flesh.

[Archmaester Drew]

Are the people who are saying that the cotf created the Iron Islands with the hammer of the waters saying that the Iron Isles were raised out of the water? Or are you saying that it use to be 1 big island that was split kind of like the stepstones. If so I could get on board with that.

In addition to what was originally posted in the theory about Naggas bones, the worldbook provides more evidence. Apparently the Grey king made his first ship out of a pale demon tree that ate human flesh.

The Iron Islands were once dry land attached to the Neck (i.e., part of mainland Westeros), I think, and hammered like the Stepstones. :)

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Shapechangers are actually changelings and the rich history about various monsters stealing human babies confirm this notion.

i don´t recall changelings in asoiaf.

[Reginald blackfield]

I believe that instead of the people of Mossovy, the winged men are instead skinchangers. They are mentioned to be able to soar like Eagles. But from what we have heard about other lands beyond the five forts, not everything should be taken literally. Thus rather than literally having wings and being able to fly I believe that they instead have the power to enter the minds of Birds which lets them fly metaphorically.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I believe that instead of the people of Mossovy, the winged men are instead skinchangers. They are mentioned to be able to soar like Eagles. But from what we have heard about other lands beyond the five forts, not everything should be taken literally. Thus rather than literally having wings and being able to fly I believe that they instead have the power to enter the minds of Birds which lets them fly metaphorically.

No. %100 sure winged men are not real. It's just "here be dragons" stuff (as GRRM said so)

As for Mossovy's shapechangers, I still don't think that the Cotf lives/used to live in Mossovy. If George wanted us to know that the Cotf also lived in the furthest east, then he would have dropped some other hints as he did with the Ifequevron. Yandel also mentions demon hunters, so they co-exist. I don't know how can you make a link between demon hunters and the cotf? The Thousand Islanders have a link with Deep Ones, not the Children.

I believe shapechangers in Asshai and Mossovy are like the faceless men (It would be silly if FM's face-changing magic is unique to them imo and we also gained an offical name for their art, so yay! ).

I agree that Westerosi "shapechangers" are just skinchangers.

What I wonder is demon hunters...and if Mossovy has a native people.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

No. %100 sure winged men are not real. It's just "here be dragons" stuff (as GRRM said so)

As for Mossovy's shapechangers, I still don't think that the Cotf lives/used to live in Mossovy. If George wanted us to know that the Cotf also lived in the furthest east, then he would have dropped some other hints as he did with the Ifequevron. Yandel also mentions demon hunters, so they co-exist. I don't know how can you make a link between demon hunters and the cotf? The Thousand Islanders have a link with Deep Ones, not the Children.

I believe shapechangers in Asshai and Mossovy are like the faceless men (It would be silly if FM's face-changing magic is unique to them imo and we also gained an offical name for their art, so yay! ).

I agree that Westerosi "shapechangers" are just skinchangers.

What I wonder is demon hunters...and if Mossovy has a native people.

in planetos there are dragons.. so it´s not really the same isn´t it? it is full of strange humanoids around, why not some of them in the far east?

He is dropping hints..it´s a dark forest where there are shapechangers..another way of saying skinchangers.. of course there is one line on Mossovy, you can´t really expect many more clues.

Why on earth would it be silly for the FM to try to keep the monopoly of their art? the Valyrians were the only ones that tamed dragons, at least in known history. You did´t see them spreading the lore around do you?

if you agree shapechangers in westeros are the same as skinchangers, how it is far fetchd to suspect we are talking about the same magic in this case?

This is after all a book written by a westerosi.. but it is not unusual for someone to mistake skinchangers with Shapechangers. many think wargs and skinchangers do transform into beasts.. Its easy to believe some tales of that sort reached the Citadel and Maester Yendal is just telling us what little he knows of those places.

Demon Hunters could be just that.. someone who hunts demons.. Mossovy limits with the Greywaste (lots of demons there), and with the thousand islands (Deep ones might still be active around there)

[Reginald blackfield]

No. %100 sure winged men are not real. It's just "here be dragons" stuff (as GRRM said so)

As for Mossovy's shapechangers, I still don't think that the Cotf lives/used to live in Mossovy. If George wanted us to know that the Cotf also lived in the furthest east, then he would have dropped some other hints as he did with the Ifequevron. Yandel also mentions demon hunters, so they co-exist. I don't know how can you make a link between demon hunters and the cotf? The Thousand Islanders have a link with Deep Ones, not the Children.

I believe shapechangers in Asshai and Mossovy are like the faceless men (It would be silly if FM's face-changing magic is unique to them imo and we also gained an offical name for their art, so yay! ).

I agree that Westerosi "shapechangers" are just skinchangers.

What I wonder is demon hunters...and if Mossovy has a native people.

But then why do we assume that anything about Mossovy is real though? Most myths usually have some grain of truth in the centre of them, Griffins for example may have been inspired by dinosaur fossils found by the Scythians and Banshees may have been inspired by the cry of a barn owl.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

how about this one?

the pre thousand island people, descendants of Deep Ones, were more agressive at some point. More Ironborn-like..reaving and attacking Mossovy.. until the Cotf there dropped the hammer on them, breaking the once One Island into a thousand (actually three hundred)

Since then, the Islanders are afraid of the seas and isolated themselves.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

in planetos there are dragons.. so it´s not really the same isn´t it? it is full of strange humanoids around, why not some of them in the far east?

if you agree shapechangers in westeros are the same as skinchangers, how it is far fetchd to suspect we are talking about the same magic in this case?

This is after all a book written by a westerosi.. but it is not unusual for someone to mistake skinchangers with Shapechangers. many think wargs and skinchangers do transform into beasts.. Its easy to believe some tales of that sort reached the Citadel and Maester Yendal is just telling us what little he knows of those places.

Demon Hunters could be just that.. someone who hunts demons.. Mossovy limits with the Greywaste (lots of demons there), and with the thousand islands (Deep ones might still be active around there)

GRRM said this. IMO this outright confirms winged men are just a tale.

"while the maesters know more about Asshai and the lands beyond than a medieval monk knew about Cathay, distance remains a factor, and past a certain point legends and myths will creep in. Here there be winged men, and such."

Shapechangers are also mentioned in Asshai chapter as one of the magicians kinds in the city. This is why I believe Essosi shapechangers are like FM and Westerosi ones are skinchangers.

[Archmaester Drew]

GRRM said this. IMO this outright confirms winged men are just a tale.

"while the maesters know more about Asshai and the lands beyond than a medieval monk knew about Cathay, distance remains a factor, and past a certain point legends and myths will creep in. Here there be winged men, and such."

Shapechangers are also mentioned in Asshai chapter as one of the magicians kinds in the city. This is why I believe Essosi shapechangers are like FM and Westerosi ones are skinchangers.

I suspect that the 'winged men' may have some sort of glider contraptions that inspired the legends -- like the legends of centaurs in the Grasslands. I don't think there are centaurs on Planetos (it isn't Narnia!). :)

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

GRRM said this. IMO this outright confirms winged men are just a tale.

"while the maesters know more about Asshai and the lands beyond than a medieval monk knew about Cathay, distance remains a factor, and past a certain point legends and myths will creep in. Here there be winged men, and such."

Shapechangers are also mentioned in Asshai chapter as one of the magicians kinds in the city. This is why I believe Essosi shapechangers are like FM and Westerosi ones are skinchangers.

Sure, Asshai has all kinds of magic.. why not some skinchangerS?

with regards to the winged men, i understand, there are a lot of myths and half truths.. but there is a fact, Yi Ti builded the Five Forts, clearly they were very much afraid of something that attacked them from there... the same way the FM made the Wall.. it wasn´t because of Snarks and Grumkins..

Btw, Maester Yandel calls all these humanoid monsters from beyond the forts, as Snarks and Grumkins. To me that means there is some truth in the claims of such demons.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

For all the stuff we have seen so far, shapechangers are off the table? lol

we have dragons, the Others, prophecies that are coming true, sorcery, wargs

[Reginald blackfield]

how about this one?

the pre thousand island people, descendants of Deep Ones, were more agressive at some point. More Ironborn-like..reaving and attacking Mossovy.. until the Cotf there dropped the hammer on them, breaking the once One Island into a thousand (actually three hundred)

Since then, the Islanders are afraid of the seas and isolated themselves.

I like this theory except I highly doubt that the deep ones bred with Humans, not all races of Men can breed with each other (Ibbenese and female Sothoryosi) so the idea that Humans bred with other races just seems ludicrous to me. I believe the thousand Islanders are just normal Humans who have gained green skin and baldness either due to being in isolation (similar to the Valyrians) or due to inbreeding following limited populations on the Islands following the hammer.

[Aerin of the House Hador]

I like this theory except I highly doubt that the deep ones bred with Humans, not all races of Men can breed with each other (Ibbenese and female Sothoryosi) so the idea that Humans bred with other races just seems ludicrous to me. I believe the thousand Islanders are just normal Humans who have gained green skin and baldness either due to being in isolation (similar to the Valyrians) or due to inbreeding following limited populations on the Islands following the hammer.

Who can say that their skin is really green? I mean they could dye themselves and shave their heads...due to their uninviting nature it's highly unlikely that some traveller can really see if it's dye or their skin-color....or maybe they eat things plants or animals that change the color of their skins (like the flamingos that eat pink crabs).

Tales grow while they travel so I do not believe them to be as alien as Yandel makes them to be, but I believe that there is more to this stories of the Deep Ones, the Old Ones and the Maze-makers, altough I am a little confused which are the Old Ones, which are the Deep Ones and wheter or not they are connected...

[Reginald blackfield]

I do not think there is much to the old ones, the only mention we have of them comes from Leng on the other side of the world, they shouldn't trouble westeros at all

Same goes for the Mazemakers although I do believe they were destroyed by the deep ones.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Um...Ran said pictures are out-of-world, which means they are not drawn by maesters, and we have an image of a female Thousand Islander and she looks quite alien to me, her skin seems naturally green, no dye or something. %100 canon IMO. And apparently the travelers can observe that their females file their teeth into sharp points, I'm sure they would be able see if they dye themselves to green or shave their body wholly.

Not to mention Lord Corlys Velaryon visited those islands, we have first hand reports.

I like this theory except I highly doubt that the deep ones bred with Humans, not all races of Men can breed with each other (Ibbenese and female Sothoryosi) so the idea that Humans bred with other races just seems ludicrous to me. I believe the thousand Islanders are just normal Humans who have gained green skin and baldness either due to being in isolation (similar to the Valyrians) or due to inbreeding following limited populations on the Islands following the hammer.

We have more evidence that leads us to believe that Thousand Islanders are halflings of Deep Ones and humans. Whereas the remnats of a drowned kingdom is just a tale... and the hammer of waters is just a theory.

[Reginald blackfield]

Um...Ran said pictures are out-of-world, which means they are not drawn by maesters, and we have an image of a female Thousand Islander and she looks quite alien to me, her skin seems naturally green, no dye or something. %100 canon IMO. And apparently the travelers can observe that their females file their teeth into sharp points, I'm sure they would be able see if they dye themselves to green or shave their body wholly.

Not to mention Lord Corlys Velaryon visited those islands, we have first hand reports.

We have more evidence that leads us to believe that Thousand Islanders are halflings of Deep Ones and humans. Whereas the remnats of a drowned kingdom is just a tale... and the hammer of waters is just a theory.

But if they do fear the sea so much, how did they get to the islands in the first place? And why do they fear the sea so much?