Darth Richard II Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Uh, I don't recall the engineer trilogy, the company, the hammer or the folding knife having any magic at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 They're awesome despite being YA :PIn fact, I liked them as much - if not more - than TFL trilogy, despite that the story and characters are a bit more simple (haven't read the standalone books yet). One thing that I didn't like as much is that there is no magic at all in The Shattered Sea.Strictly speaking, does it count as fantasy if there is no magic there? There's magic in the sense of technology no-one understands. Probably best to call it fiction :) I never understood the way some people turn there nose up at YA. Some YA has more swearing and sex then some adult fiction. Then again I don;t understand the YA label to begin with. I've heard a few authors say they prefer the "genre" in the sense the market is much more open to different ideas than the "adult" section. Not sure if this means people grow out of their imagination, become more conservative, or are forced into it because the adult market is far more uniform in presentation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogon's Personal Trainer Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Sand Dan Glokta is one of the most complex characters I've come across. You hate him, yet you see his side of things. Amazing job Abercrombie did with him. I love him to bits, to be honest. Even from his first pages. Abercrombie cleverly invites sympathy first (Glokta inching his painful way down the stairs) before we see his evil side. We know he has a horrific backstory somewhere - I'm dying to find out about that. Books tend to grab me the most if the characters are well-drawn, and these are. I think someone mentioned upthread that each character has a distinct narrative voice and that is very true. I've read too many books where there are multiple voices which all sound alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I never understood the way some people turn there nose up at YA. Some YA has more swearing and sex then some adult fiction. Then again I don;t understand the YA label to begin with. This is definitely a YA trilogy and planned as such. I also think there is definitely a difference in the writing between this and the First Law trilogy/Heroes/Red Country. I much prefer those and look forward to a return to adult work from Joe. I'm sure this may work perfectly fine for others but for me it's not as great a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yes, KJ Parker writes completely magic less fantasy that still counts as fantasy. There's a name for it but it escapes me at the moment. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/47389-is-fantasy-without-magic-still-fantasy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRevanchist Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Sand Dan Glokta is one of the most complex characters I've come across. You hate him, yet you see his side of things. Amazing job Abercrombie did with him.I love Glokta. One of my favorite characters, and certainly my favorite Abercrombie's character.I saw a lot of him in Yarvi, but Glokta was just better. Would read an entire series of him if Joe decides to write it (even if it is just torturing people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRevanchist Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yes, KJ Parker writes completely magic less fantasy that still counts as fantasy. There's a name for it but it escapes me at the moment.I am not familiar with those books, but when it comes to TSS it isn't even a different world. It is our world, set in distant future, when something bad has happened (arguably a nuclear war) and that's it. No magic, no different world.If Abercrombie wasn't a fantasy writter but wrote the exact same book, I doubt that anyone would have counted The Shattered Sea trilogy as fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjornbert Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I am not familiar with those books, but when it comes to TSS it isn't even a different world. It is our world, set in distant future, when something bad has happened (arguably a nuclear war) and that's it. No magic, no different world.If Abercrombie wasn't a fantasy writter but wrote the exact same book, I doubt that anyone would have counted The Shattered Sea trilogy as fantasy.People still call Wolfe's Book of the New Sun fantasy IIRCAnd Parker's Fencer trilogy does include magic and so do his(so strange to call Parker a him now) short stories.Abercrombie's YA trilogy is very good, but I miss his multiple PoV's:(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 People still call Wolfe's Book of the New Sun fantasy IIRCAnd Parker's Fencer trilogy does include magic and so do his(so strange to call Parker a him now) short stories.Abercrombie's YA trilogy is very good, but I miss his multiple PoV's:(.Well there are multiple POVs across the trilogy. Brand, Thorn and Yarvi so far and Half a War introduces at least one new POV as I understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melx Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I never understood the way some people turn there nose up at YA. Some YA has more swearing and sex then some adult fiction. Then again I don;t understand the YA label to begin with.far from "nose up" stuff, it's just i do not know much (if anything) about it.... (i`m quit new to "fantasy": before ASOIAF i`ve read only LOTR and since i`ve read TWOT, 6 books by Joe A. & Luke Scull - The Grim Company)YA or not i cant wait to read SS trilogy :read: , since i enjoyed previous JA work :thumbsup: They're awesome despite being YA :PIn fact, I liked them as much - if not more - than TFL trilogy, despite that the story and characters are a bit more simple (haven't read the standalone books yet). One thing that I didn't like as much is that there is no magic at all in The Shattered Sea.Strictly speaking, does it count as fantasy if there is no magic there?i have high expectation and looks like i wont be disappointed (your & other people recommendations are appreciated :kiss: )btw love your avatar :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I am not familiar with those books, but when it comes to TSS it isn't even a different world. It is our world, set in distant future, when something bad has happened (arguably a nuclear war) and that's it. No magic, no different world. If Abercrombie wasn't a fantasy writter but wrote the exact same book, I doubt that anyone would have counted The Shattered Sea trilogy as fantasy. I dunno... They still refer to "us" as elves and they have multiple gods that they pray to and there are certainly enough superstitions to make them feel like fantasy. I don't consider it historical fiction like I would the Warlord Trilogy for example. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 That's a lot to do with interpretation though Rhom, I had something similar reading Wilbur Smiths Warlock - while events in the book are seen as mysterious our modern acknowledgement removes the mystery and it is left open ended enough to be considered either way. Having only read Half a King I probably need to do a bit more reading, I think the fundamental marker is acknowledgement (for example we read The Warlod Chronicles to give your example) with our historic cap on, so we view it more as Historical Fiction than Fantasy. Its an interesting discussion though - probably warrants its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Doesn't historical fiction need to take place in the past? Surely the debate over Shattered Sea should be fantasy vs sci-fi.Is there another term than sci-fi covering near or far future non-dystopian settings with no emphasis on tech or space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Doesn't historical fiction need to take place in the past? Surely the debate over Shattered Sea should be fantasy vs sci-fi.Is there another term than sci-fi covering near or far future non-dystopian settings with no emphasis on tech or space?Broadly it fits under Post-Apocalyptic, usually considered sci-fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hey Unjon, Historical Fiction covers the past and I think the term for anything in the future is Future History unless it goes to much into high tech and then it becomes SciFi - at least that's how I would define it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I wouldn't term Shattered Sea post-apoc (I have only read the first) mainly because the world still seems fairly well inhabited, the setting reminded me of Norse mythology rather than future post apoc. Genres are such a pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Thanks both. Makes sense. Post-apocalyptic covers SS I think. SR: there is definitely an apocalypse in the past of SS. Agree that there has been a recovery also though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRevanchist Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I wouldn't term Shattered Sea post-apoc (I have only read the first) mainly because the world still seems fairly well inhabited, the setting reminded me of Norse mythology rather than future post apoc. Genres are such a pain!The society looks like Vikings, but it is our own world in the future. Considering that it is a regressed society (compared to us now), then most likely there had happened something bad. Quite similar to Mark Lawrence's The Broken Empire trilogy who is set on a post apocalyptic world but there there is magic (well a combination of science-magic which actually was the thing I liked most there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's usually called dying earth fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjornbert Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well there are multiple POVs across the trilogy. Brand, Thorn and Yarvi so far and Half a War introduces at least one new POV as I understand You have a point, but it's still not enough for me at least. Minor complaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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