The Complete Winds of Winter Resource

[TheHouseHB]

He has done a couple of interviews recently...

Anything new or just the same old response that he is writing?

[ChillyPolly]

Based on his comments during the GoT pilot filming, George had already started writing it in late 2009, before The Mystery Knight was published.

If I ever see these comments, I may be willing to reconsider.

[MiniMitch]

What I find weird if that WoW news went quiet for nearly two years (the last big bit of new we got was the interview in June 2013), and now, due to his publisher talking about the release date, everyone - even mainstream news - is talking about Winds.

I know GRRM has said he'll just announce it when it's done, but anyone else feel the latest stir about the release date his publisher has cause was done of purpose to get everyone talking about it?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Anything new or just the same old response that he is writing?

Apparently, he was at the Guild West Awards, saying that he will finish the books no matter what happens to the show...

What I find weird if that WoW news went quiet for nearly two years (the last big bit of new we got was the interview in June 2013), and now, due to his publisher talking about the release date, everyone - even mainstream news - is talking about Winds.

I know GRRM has said he'll just announce it when it's done, but anyone else feel the latest stir about the release date his publisher has cause was done of purpose to get everyone talking about it?

The publisher hasn`t given any news, so it`s not like they are building hype, or anything.

[mormont]

[mod] Once again, this is a thread for information about TWOW. It is not a thread for speculation, discussion of the author's level of motivation, discussion of the progress of the TV series, or anything else. [/mod]

[mattpeto]

Mormont - understood.

Just for clarification - you are not permitted to talk about any "timing" speculation anywhere on these boards? Not even in another thread, correct?

[mormont]

The standing policy is that we allow discussion of news about TWOW when there's news to discuss. When there's no news, threads that consist of just speculation aren't productive (and often turn negative) so we don't allow them. We try to be reasonable about it, but that's the situation.

After all, unless you have some serious insider information, speculation about the future is just a guessing game.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

• http://www.sffworld.com/forums/showthread.php?31992-GRRM-reveals-info-on-THE-WINDS-OF-WINTER

• http://grrm.livejournal.com/159060.html

By these two links that you have already put can we assume Arianne III and Jon Connighton I as semi-confirmed?

[Grrrod]

I really miss George's progress status updates.

[ChillyPolly]

• http://www.sffworld.com/forums/showthread.php?31992-GRRM-reveals-info-on-THE-WINDS-OF-WINTER

• http://grrm.livejournal.com/159060.html

By these two links that you have already put can we assume Arianne III and Jon Connighton I as semi-confirmed?

No.

[ChillyPolly]

On a similar note, the OP is wrong to list Danaerys, Davos and Jon Snow as confirmed POV chapters. No such POV chapters have been confirmed. Speculation on the basis of vague and ambiguous clues is not confirmation.

I might not object too hard if Dany & Jon were counted as "probable" chapters. But hardly "confirmed".

Even in the "probable" section, names are listed for which there exists no basis. For example, I see no reason whatsoever to assume we will have further chapters from Areo Hotah or Melisandre. Even Brienne is not "probable": her sequence of POV chapters has already ceased, leaving readers deliberately in the dark. We don't see things from her POV because GRRM does not want us to know what she is up to. And there is no reason to assume that GRRM, having deliberately brought a POV sequence to an end, will ever resume it.

I think OP tends to confuse "character will probably appear" with "character will have a POV chapter".

[BryndenBFish]

On a similar note, the OP is wrong to list Danaerys, Davos and Jon Snow as confirmed POV chapters. No such POV chapters have been confirmed. Speculation on the basis of vague and ambiguous clues is not confirmation.

I might not object too hard if Dany & Jon were counted as "probable" chapters. But hardly "confirmed".

Even in the "probable" section, names are listed for which there exists no basis. For example, I see no reason whatsoever to assume we will have further chapters from Areo Hotah or Melisandre. Even Brienne is not "probable": her sequence of POV chapters has already ceased, leaving readers deliberately in the dark. We don't see things from her POV because GRRM does not want us to know what she is up to. And there is no reason to assume that GRRM, having deliberately brought a POV sequence to an end, will ever resume it.

I think OP tends to confuse "character will probably appear" with "character will have a POV chapter".

I don't understand the negativity here, but I'll bite:

• GRRM was writing about the Dothraki in April 2012, just 4 months after he started writing TWOW in earnest. (Per EW Shelf Life, he was planning on kicking off writing new material for TWOW in January 2012). Which POV do you think would encompass the Dothraki that early in writing TWOW besides Daenerys? Plus, Wert's post on TWOW states a confirmed but unread Daenerys I chapter.

Per Davos: GRRM stated at the Deeper Than Swords lecture at Texas A&M that he was going to write Osha but hadn't written her as of March 2013. Which POV would this be besides Davos? Davos is sailing to Skagos by ADWD, Davos IV. Can you think of another POV who would have done it?

In a 2012 interview with MTV News, GRRM went on record to say “All the characters [are in the book],” he promised. “I’m going to start pulling the threads back together in this one, I hope.” So, I don't understand the criticism of "probable POVs." This is GRRM's words, not my hopes/dreams.

At best, the Jon as a confirmed POV is a stretch, but it seems a genuine slip-up with the Austin Chronicler. Here's the quotation:

The other factor, though, is that even when I'm just writing the Ice and Fire books, in a sense I'm not just writing one story, I'm writing a dozen different stories. When I switch gears and I go from writing some Tyrion chapters to writing some Jon Snow chapters, it's a whole different voice, he's in a whole different part of the world, surrounded by completely different characters with different issues. So it's almost like I am switching gears, even though I'm in the same universe and telling the same story. Ice and Fire, ultimately, is not just one novel, but it's like a dozen different novels woven together, and the structure is very intricate, and the voices are very different from one another.

Seems fairly compelling to me, but if you don't subscribe to it, that's fine.

[BryndenBFish]

• http://www.sffworld.com/forums/showthread.php?31992-GRRM-reveals-info-on-THE-WINDS-OF-WINTER

• http://grrm.livejournal.com/159060.html

By these two links that you have already put can we assume Arianne III and Jon Connighton I as semi-confirmed?

I'm thinking that incomplete chapter is an Arianne chapter -- though now I'm curious about the unwritten chapter here. I'm curious if that's another Arianne chapter. The only other POV that would make sense would be Jon Connington, but since he already had 2 chapters written in ADWD, I'm not so sure that's who George meant.

So, thinking 4 total Arianne chapters written, partial or imagined. Neat!

[mattpeto]

The standing policy is that we allow discussion of news about TWOW when there's news to discuss. When there's no news, threads that consist of just speculation aren't productive (and often turn negative) so we don't allow them. We try to be reasonable about it, but that's the situation.

After all, unless you have some serious insider information, speculation about the future is just a guessing game.

"This is the fifth season, the sixth season HBO picked up last year. [Will we] have a 7th, 8th or 9th? No one knows. They only renew one or two seasons at a time. After we do season 6, maybe we’ll get a renewal for 7th and 8th. That all depends, " Link

In your opinion there is nothing to talk about, but it's pretty clear that GRRM is campaigning for more seasons that D&D has stated they want to work on. He's clearly campaigning to buy more time to finish his books. I simply find this newsworthy Mormont.

[ChillyPolly]

I don't understand the negativity here, but I'll bite:

• GRRM was writing about the Dothraki in April 2012, just 4 months after he started writing TWOW in earnest. (Per EW Shelf Life, he was planning on kicking off writing new material for TWOW in January 2012). Which POV do you think would encompass the Dothraki that early in writing TWOW besides Daenerys? Plus, Wert's post on TWOW states a confirmed but unread Daenerys I chapter.

Per Davos: GRRM stated at the Deeper Than Swords lecture at Texas A&M that he was going to write Osha but hadn't written her as of March 2013. Which POV would this be besides Davos? Davos is sailing to Skagos by ADWD, Davos IV. Can you think of another POV who would have done it?

In a 2012 interview with MTV News, GRRM went on record to say “All the characters [are in the book],” he promised. “I’m going to start pulling the threads back together in this one, I hope.” So, I don't understand the criticism of "probable POVs." This is GRRM's words, not my hopes/dreams.

At best, the Jon as a confirmed POV is a stretch, but it seems a genuine slip-up with the Austin Chronicler. Here's the quotation:

Seems fairly compelling to me, but if you don't subscribe to it, that's fine.

I don't appreciate you throwing the word "negativity" at me. We can each be as positive or negative as we like. But when you use the word "confirmed", you should stick to what has been "confirmed". Otherwise you are giving yourself a license to say things that are not true.

Re, the "confirmed" Danaerys chapter:

(1) "writing about the Dothraki" for Winds, does not necessarily mean "writing a chapter about the Dothraki" for Winds; he could, for instance, be writing Dothraki background materials, which he will use later in the book, which may feature a Dothraki invasion of Westoros.

(2) There is no rule that says the next chapter he writes must immediately follow the last chapter he wrote. He controls the creative process, and may jump around. Strict order of composition is an assumption on your part, and precisely why you should not be using the word "confirmed".

(3) Even so, you do not know that the next chapter to feature the Dothraki will be from Dany's point of view. The next we see of them could be from Barristan's, or Tyrion's, or Victarion's, or some other person's POV, as the Dothraki come charging into the battle of Meereen.

(4) George never said anything to indicate he had began "seriously" working on Winds in January 2012. "Planning" to do something is not the same as being confirmed to have done it, as GRRM has proven many many times.

(5) Citing a statement by a fellow fan, without checking his source, is called "spreading rumors"; this is precisely why you should not be using the word "confirmed". Werthead no doubt got this information from the same source as you did, and is making the same logical mistakes you are.

Re: the "confirmed" Davos chapter.

(1) I have no idea from whose POV we will next see Osha. I don't think you know either. Maybe we will next see Davos in an Osha's POV? Have you considered that? Or maybe the next we see of Davos, Osha, Rickon & Summer is when they return to Westeros, in Jon Snow's POV, or Cersei's POV, or Jaime's POV, and only then will Davos explain how he came to retrieve Osha, Rickon & Summer. GRRM did tell us that the POVs are going to start to converge, after all. There are a thousand possibilities, and just because you consider a "Davos POV chapter" the most likely spot for the next Osha sighting, does not make it "confirmed".

Re: the "confirmed" Jon Snow chapter

(1) GRRM was talking generally about the writing process, and that's all he intended to do. The example he chose could easily have been (and probably was) taken from the writing of ADWD. You implicitly concede he did not intend to reveal spoilers by calling his words a "slip-up". But why interpret his words contrary to his intent in the first place? Just read his words as they are clearly intended - a general statement and example to illustrate the way he writes.

Re: "all the characters are in the book"

(1) This merely means that the book won't be split by POV like Feast/Dance. He's not promising a Catelyn POV simply because he had one before; or a Varamyr POV simply because he had one before; nor is he promising that Kevan will survive his stabbing and reappear. Same goes for Mel, Hotah, or even Brienne. He is not promising that Sam survived his encounter with the Faceless Assassin. He is not endorsing the theory that Quentyn is alive and will show up again.

(2) A character being "in the book" does not mean the character gets a POV chapter.

(3) "pulling the threads together" means a lesser need for multiple POVs

[Werthead]

If I ever see these comments, I may be willing to reconsider.

Martin made these comments to myself (and other fans present, and several actors from the TV show) in person in Belfast in November 2009 during the filming of the pilot episode of GoT.

[ChillyPolly]

Martin made these comments to myself (and other fans present, and several actors from the TV show) in person in Belfast in November 2009 during the filming of the pilot episode of GoT.

What comments? You never quoted his words. You merely indicated the conclusions you drew.

[Petyr Martell]

ChillyPolly, you are being too selective, you are taking all statements and throwing them away just because they don't say "there'll be, without any doubts, a.... Chapter". Well, things aren't that simple when you are writing a book, they evolve and GRRM is known by modifications. He won't say "i'm writing a Davos chapter with Osha", but we assume he is, because he said

that's Davos plot and Grrm said Osha would appear. You've spent the whole post discrediting every statement, instead of analysing the information greatly collected by Brydenbfish (thanks btw).

All you've done was be negative about GRRM's work and writing, besides depreciate all the hours spent by Brydenbfish. He quoted and searched for reliable sources, that musnt vê thrown away just because you disagree.

[Ser Creighton]

Any idea on what this is on about?

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2kfwlt/spoilers_all_winds_of_winter_product_page_and/

http://www.amazon.in/The-Winds-Winter-Book-Song/dp/0002247410

I think I have seen something like this before, but was just curious, because the date, the World Book cover being used and it having a synopsis. Seems fake to me, ummm but thought I would check here. If it is fake I am pretty sure they should not be using the World Book cover, if it's not when did they release a date for Winds, and a rather spoilery sysnopsis. Like massive spoilers which seems strange for a synopsis on a book that is years away. I mean a publisher would base it off the 1-4 page treatment they recieved for the book, but still seems rather odd.

[ChillyPolly]

ChillyPolly, you are being too selective, you are taking all statements and throwing them away just because they don't say "there'll be, without any doubts, a.... Chapter". Well, things aren't that simple when you are writing a book, they evolve and GRRM is known by modifications. He won't say "i'm writing a Davos chapter with Osha", but we assume he is, because he said

that's Davos plot and Grrm said Osha would appear. You've spent the whole post discrediting every statement, instead of analysing the information greatly collected by Brydenbfish (thanks btw).

All you've done was be negative about GRRM's work and writing, besides depreciate all the hours spent by Brydenbfish. He quoted and searched for reliable sources, that musnt vê thrown away just because you disagree.

(1) I have no objection to you assuming things, as long as you make clear that it is something you are assuming, and not something GRRM is saying.

(2) I have no objection to saying that GRRM has confirmed that Osha will reappear, because that's what he said.

(3) I have no objection to anyone saying "GRRM has confirmed that Osha will reappear, and I think this will probably happen in a chapter written from the POV of Davos". Because then you are making clear that you are speculating, and not attributing your own speculations and conclusions to GRRM.

(4) I DO have an objection to saying that GRRM has confirmed that Osha will reappear in a chapter written from Davos' POV, because GRRM did not say that. Sure, it is POSSIBLY correct, but if you say that GRRM has confirmed that it is correct, you are telling an untruth.

(5) I never said that all of the OP's work should be thrown out. That is an untruth on your part.

(6) I never "deprecated all the hours spent by Bryndenbfish". That is another untruth. I offered what I hoped would be taken as constructive criticism of specific parts.

(7) I said nothing negative about GRRM or his writing.