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The Complete Winds of Winter Resource


BryndenBFish

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FYI, user who viewed the ADWD manuscript confirmed that he/she saw the 3 ADWD Bran chapters already in the manuscript. So the annotation of a 4th ADWD Bran chapter likely cut to TWOW is confirmed.



Edit: Wert, if reading, will TWOW latest info post be updated or does stronger confirmation need to come from GRRM or one of his editors?


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FYI, user who viewed the ADWD manuscript confirmed that he/she saw the 3 ADWD Bran chapters already in the manuscript. So the annotation of a 4th ADWD Bran chapter likely cut to TWOW is confirmed.

Edit: Wert, if reading, will TWOW latest info post be updated or does stronger confirmation need to come from GRRM or one of his editors?

It seems pretty strong, I will update the post.

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What exactly is the degree of spoilers in that "GRRM-andora's box" opening entail? I'd like to check out the Bran piece, but is that legitimately a new chapter or just hints of one?

There are no spoilers related to the new Bran chapter, just some good detective work that shows that GRRM cut a Bran chapter from ADWD to TWOW. Additionally, my post over on /r/asoiaf goes into when the Bran chapter was originally going to occur within the timeline of ADWD -- that may be the most significant thing from the discovery. I won't say when it was originally intended to occur, just that it's significant and I think it's worth checking out.

Hope not. That's really Deus Ex Machina.

GRRM does have Deus Ex Machina moments for Bran throughout the books. Arguably, as the character most tied to magic, he's in a special position to impact the plot in a deux-ex type of way.

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GRRM does have Deus Ex Machina moments for Bran throughout the books. Arguably, as the character most tied to magic, he's in a special position to impact the plot in a deux-ex type of way.

I agree, Bran and Deus Ex Machina is something I don't even notice anymore. And If Theon's story is really over, Bran will certainly have a role on his sacrifice or something, I can see that happening clearly.

Maybe even saving him and then BOOM... Theon's storyline is not over...

It'd be awesome if that happened, just saying...

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GRRM does have Deus Ex Machina moments for Bran throughout the books. Arguably, as the character most tied to magic, he's in a special position to impact the plot in a deux-ex type of way.

Yes, but resolving the battle by suddenly including in the story secret enter in the Castle - that's just cheap.

I hope the Battle of Ice will be just Stannis vs Boltons. Without new forces arriving to save the day or magic ravens smuggling armies inside.
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Man, those 2 blurbs are so weird. I don't know how to react to either of them as they seem to be written by ppl who thought ASOIAF was a much more mystical series than it seems. I'm not saying they're wrong, just strange.

The blurbs were put out by the publishers and were probably written by an intern with info from the editor about what GRRM though he was going to do at the time. The pre-publication book blurbs for ACOK (very spoilery about Robb) and ASOS were pretty similar, they also show that the editors sometimes think GRRM is going to get to events sooner than he does (they think the arrival of the Others and Dany is imminent in every book) and either the details change, get moved about or they get them wrong (Shireen dreaming about waking dragons from stone rather than Mel saying it and the Others wanting freedom). We know GRRM does not plan in anything but the broadest way so it means they are very vague. Also they basically give us the starting point of the books rather than much of the plot. Dany is the exception because I think the first Dany chapter after the 5 year gap was supposed to be Daznak's Pit so they probably didn't want to ruin that surprise and picked a less unexpected part of her story which starts early-ish in the book (most people expected Barristan to tell Dany about Aerys in ADWD so it is less of a spoiler than her riding Drogon or going back to the Dothraki Sea).

As you say there isn't really much unexpected in them, unless really believe crackpots like "Dany will never get to Westeros", "X character will kill Y character on sight because reasons" or "The Seven Kingdoms become independent states again" which contradict things GRRM has said anyway. The real interesting things they confirm is that the Stark kids are supposed to complete their "training" and become very good at what they do rather than stay helpless, there aren't supposed to be good and bad families, everyone important is coming back to Westeros soonish and Dany's arc is more or less outlined from when she leaves the Dothraki Sea up to the Wall falling (if GRRM hasn't changed his mind).

Re Starfall, I think the main reason Dany didn't ask Barristan about her family in ADWD is not for any character reason but because GRRM always wanted to explain it along side her journey to Westeros. A bit of slave freeing, a bit of travelling and a bit of back-story so the chapters don't get bogged down with one thing. I think it means what Barristan reveals about Aerys madness and whether Rhaegar was really great will end with what he believes happens to Ashara rather than them ending up physically at Starfall. This may mean that Barristan not thinking the name of the person who dishonoured Ashara in ADWD is not because he doesn't know but because GRRM wants him to reveal it later.

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Holy crap, does that mean he'll be our POV for Theon's sacrifice????

Didn't Bran taste blood as the first sacrifice was shown to him? Wonder if we'll get more details on how Bran feels when getting sacrificial blood soaked up into the weirwood.

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The blurbs were put out by the publishers and were probably written by an intern with info from the editor about what GRRM though he was going to do at the time. The pre-publication book blurbs for ACOK (very spoilery about Robb) and ASOS were pretty similar, they also show that the editors sometimes think GRRM is going to get to events sooner than he does (they think the arrival of the Others and Dany is imminent in every book) and either the details change, get moved about or they get them wrong (Shireen dreaming about waking dragons from stone rather than Mel saying it and the Others wanting freedom). We know GRRM does not plan in anything but the broadest way so it means they are very vague. Also they basically give us the starting point of the books rather than much of the plot. Dany is the exception because I think the first Dany chapter after the 5 year gap was supposed to be Daznak's Pit so they probably didn't want to ruin that surprise and picked a less unexpected part of her story which starts early-ish in the book (most people expected Barristan to tell Dany about Aerys in ADWD so it is less of a spoiler than her riding Drogon or going back to the Dothraki Sea).

I opened a thread about it some time ago, and people were very skeptical about it. They said it was easy to predict those storylines based on aSoS alone. But, you know...

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

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2 new bits of info I've received on TWOW, just wanted to update here -- minor things but fun & intriguing all the same:

  • While Daenerys has never read the books that Jorah gave her in her marriage ceremony in AGOT, Tyrion will likely read them in TWOW.
  • Martin is good at keeping secrets, but he does offer up one tidbit—a reminder that the royal Daenerys Targaryen was given the histories of her world as a wedding gift but neglected to read them. “But you know who does know a lot of that?” he says coyly. “Tyrion.” – Vulture Magazine, 801 Minutes with George RR Martin. 11/4/2014 (Link courtesy of Yolkboy)

  • There will be some interesting things going on in the Vale & artists looking to depict TWOW should brush up on varied depictions of fire, ice and snow.
  • Of course, TWOIAF only whets the appetite for Martin’s next juggernaut release: the highly anticipated The Winds of Winter. If you had to pick one region in the upcoming novel that you think could hold the most artistic value/inspiration for artists, what would it be?


    Artists should start eyeing the variety of ways in which you can depict snow and ice .. . . and fire, too. As to a specific region, I think there may be some very interesting things going on in the Vale of Arryn. - Elio & Linda interview with Illustrating Westeros
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2 new bits of info I've received on TWOW, just wanted to update here -- minor things but fun & intriguing all the same:

  • While Daenerys has never read the books that Jorah gave her in her marriage ceremony in AGOT, Tyrion will likely read them in TWOW.

It was obvious that Dany's party would win the battle of Meereen, now we know she and Tyrion will be away for long time in the book, and he having access to the book makes me think he'll have some sort of influence inside Meereen. Is it possible he'll be the one to solve the Meereenese Knot for Dany?

I mean, it will definitely save time for her (which she's needing, we still need one book for her stay in Westeros). Furthermore, one reason for them to be allies.

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2 new bits of info I've received on TWOW, just wanted to update here -- minor things but fun & intriguing all the same:

  • While Daenerys has never read the books that Jorah gave her in her marriage ceremony in AGOT, Tyrion will likely read them in TWOW.

There will be some interesting things going on in the Vale & artists looking to depict TWOW should brush up on varied depictions of fire, ice and snow.

That quote sounds like GRRM is hinting that Tyrion will fill Dany in on the history of Westeros.

(As a side note, I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that she reads them in ASoS.)

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That quote sounds like GRRM is hinting that Tyrion will fill Dany in on the history of Westeros.

(As a side note, I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that she reads them in ASoS.)

Did a quick check, and you are quite correct. It's in ASOS, Daenerys VI where Dany talks about reading the princess in the red tower. Someone should tell GRRM that Dany has read some of the books that Jorah gave her before he writes that she hasn't in TWOW.

Also, discussion on Bran chapter here if interested in participating on that specific discussion point.

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Apparently, the 3 chapters from TWOW were never housed at Cushing Library at Texas A&M University. They were likely exculpated prior to its delivery to the library.

Exculpated. Whoah. I think you mean that the Author retained the manuscripts of those chapters.

Bear in mind that some readers of the forums aren't native English speakers.

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