IceFire125 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And what about in that other thread where this was also posted? http://collider.com/game-of-thrones-season-3-4-george-r-r-martin-interview/ If the answer to the question is shocking, and so many people have figured out R+L=J, then how is Lyanna being his mother a shocking answer? Maybe you should actually see how Dan actually said it. The Video that corresponds to that Collider article is word for word verbatim from GoT 2013 Emmy Panel. Begin @ 3:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkzodgRaze8 GRRM: I asked them a few pointed questions to determine whether they'd actually read the books or... and they gave me the right answers... MC: he asked you a specific question and you guys guessed? Dan: he asked us... Who is Jon Snow's Mother? we discussed this before, we gave him an answer, a shocking answer, he didn't actually say whether it was right or wrong, but the smile on his face, we knew we had passed... **Dan was saying 'a shocking answer' a bit sarcastically (you can hear David giggle next to him), maybe to cover George for saying they got it right just a minute before this. But to me, D&D seem to get the answer as most of us here concluded, that Jon's Mother was Lyanna. So the nytimes article was much more telling, it was more direct. “We had a whole conversation about it,” Mr. Benioff said, “and George was pleased that we got the answer right.” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/arts/television/game-of-thrones-on-hbo-from-george-r-r-martin-novels.html?_r=2& Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't see why it is odd that Oberyn does not call Gregor "kingslayer". He does not call him "raper" or "rapist" either. He found a way to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaginepageant Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've just started re-reading the ironborn arc(s), and found a startling pair of passages in Theon's second chapter in A Clash of Kings. I'm sure this has been picked up on before, but I'll drop my write-up into the pot just in case... Though there were very few references to songs in this chapter, and even fewer that seemed meaningful, I did find a very intriguing mention in one of Theon's laughable attempts to seduce Esgred: "I've had lords before. They're made the same as other men." "Have you ever had a prince?" he asked her. "When you're wrinkled and grey and your teats hang down past your belly, you can tell your children's children that once you loved a king." "Oh, is it love we're talking now? And here I thought it was just cocks and cunts." "Is it love you fancy?" He'd decided that he liked this wench, whoever she was; her sharp wit was a welcome respite from the damp gloom of Pyke. "Shall I name my longship after you, and play you the high harp, and keep you in a tower room in my castle with only jewels to wear, like a princess in a song?" What other prince do we know who was so enamored with a woman, whose sharp wit was a respite from the gloom of his life, that he kept her in a tower like a princess in a song? I'll give you a hint: he also played the high harp. That's right: Rhaegar Targaryen! This entire passage strongly evokes images of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy—and taken as a symbolic representation of such, could be considered evidence that Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship was not only about cocks and cunts, but love. If that wasn't enough of a Targaryen allusion for one chapter, Asha later makes the following comment to Theon:"If you had troubled to learn the first thing of Sigrin, I could never have fooled you. Ten years a wolf, and you land here and think to prince about the islands, but you know nothing and no one. Why should men fight and die for you?" "I am their lawful prince," Theon said stiffly. "By the laws of the green lands, you might be. But we make our own laws here, or have you forgotten?" If you hear "You know nothing" and don't immediately think "Jon Snow," you haven't been paying attention. With Ygritte's catchphrase as a foundation for applying this passage to Jon, we can make several other connections: the initial reference to a case of mistaken identity, the time he spent as a wolf, his sudden emergence as a prince with questionable legitimacy. Considering the previous allusion to Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy, this all points to Jon being their son, the secret Targaryen prince raised as a wolf's bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've just started re-reading the ironborn arc(s), and found a startling pair of passages in Theon's second chapter in A Clash of Kings. I'm sure this has been picked up on before, but I'll drop my write-up into the pot just in case... Though there were very few references to songs in this chapter, and even fewer that seemed meaningful, I did find a very intriguing mention in one of Theon's laughable attempts to seduce Esgred: What other prince do we know who was so enamored with a woman, whose sharp wit was a respite from the gloom of his life, that he kept her in a tower like a princess in a song? I'll give you a hint: he also played the high harp. That's right: Rhaegar Targaryen! This entire passage strongly evokes images of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy—and taken as a symbolic representation of such, could be considered evidence that Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship was not only about cocks and cunts, but love. If that wasn't enough of a Targaryen allusion for one chapter, Asha later makes the following comment to Theon: If you hear "You know nothing" and don't immediately think "Jon Snow," you haven't been paying attention. With Ygritte's catchphrase as a foundation for applying this passage to Jon, we can make several other connections: the initial reference to a case of mistaken identity, the time he spent as a wolf, his sudden emergence as a prince with questionable legitimacy. Considering the previous allusion to Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy, this all points to Jon being their son, the secret Targaryen prince raised as a wolf's bastard. Nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've just started re-reading the ironborn arc(s), and found a startling pair of passages in Theon's second chapter in A Clash of Kings. I'm sure this has been picked up on before, but I'll drop my write-up into the pot just in case... Though there were very few references to songs in this chapter, and even fewer that seemed meaningful, I did find a very intriguing mention in one of Theon's laughable attempts to seduce Esgred: What other prince do we know who was so enamored with a woman, whose sharp wit was a respite from the gloom of his life, that he kept her in a tower like a princess in a song? I'll give you a hint: he also played the high harp. That's right: Rhaegar Targaryen! This entire passage strongly evokes images of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joyand taken as a symbolic representation of such, could be considered evidence that Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship was not only about cocks and cunts, but love. If that wasn't enough of a Targaryen allusion for one chapter, Asha later makes the following comment to Theon: If you hear "You know nothing" and don't immediately think "Jon Snow," you haven't been paying attention. With Ygritte's catchphrase as a foundation for applying this passage to Jon, we can make several other connections: the initial reference to a case of mistaken identity, the time he spent as a wolf, his sudden emergence as a prince with questionable legitimacy. Considering the previous allusion to Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy, this all points to Jon being their son, the secret Targaryen prince raised as a wolf's bastard.This is probably one of the best finds in awhile, especially if you consider Martins technique of "telling a story within a story."Jorah winning his tourney is another example. When I first read that, I was like, "now I know why Rhaegar was determined to win." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've just started re-reading the ironborn arc(s), and found a startling pair of passages in Theon's second chapter in A Clash of Kings. I'm sure this has been picked up on before, but I'll drop my write-up into the pot just in case... Though there were very few references to songs in this chapter, and even fewer that seemed meaningful, I did find a very intriguing mention in one of Theon's laughable attempts to seduce Esgred: What other prince do we know who was so enamored with a woman, whose sharp wit was a respite from the gloom of his life, that he kept her in a tower like a princess in a song? I'll give you a hint: he also played the high harp. That's right: Rhaegar Targaryen! This entire passage strongly evokes images of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy—and taken as a symbolic representation of such, could be considered evidence that Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship was not only about cocks and cunts, but love. If that wasn't enough of a Targaryen allusion for one chapter, Asha later makes the following comment to Theon: If you hear "You know nothing" and don't immediately think "Jon Snow," you haven't been paying attention. With Ygritte's catchphrase as a foundation for applying this passage to Jon, we can make several other connections: the initial reference to a case of mistaken identity, the time he spent as a wolf, his sudden emergence as a prince with questionable legitimacy. Considering the previous allusion to Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy, this all points to Jon being their son, the secret Targaryen prince raised as a wolf's bastard. Excellent find! This is probably one of the best finds in awhile, especially if you consider Martins technique of "telling a story within a story."Jorah winning his tourney is another example. When I first read that, I was like, "now I know why Rhaegar was determined to win." *whimper* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Excellent find! *whimper*Oh gods, BQ, I forgot you were in the "room."I'm sure if he could project into our Universe and met you, thoughts of Barby,(saying that with love), would be driven from his mind.Maybe he could get a job on Walking Dead. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just watching "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," and was wondering if Dinklage knows about this guy.https://dtvimages.hs.llnwd.net/e1//photos/celebs/v3/NowShowing/74703/74703_v3_ba.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh gods, BQ, I forgot you were in the "room."I'm sure if he could project into our Universe and met you, thoughts of Barby,(saying that with love), would be driven from his mind.Maybe he could get a job on Walking Dead. :)Better be saying it with love, the biggest Barbie in the series ran off with Lyanna. :tantrum: Probably singing and crying and playing his harp the whole way as he talked about his feelings and wanting huggies and a mother figure. Probably liked wine coolers too, not even hard lemonade, but actual Bartles and James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh gods, BQ, I forgot you were in the "room."I'm sure if he could project into our Universe and met you, thoughts of Barby,(saying that with love), would be driven from his mind.Maybe he could get a job on Walking Dead. :) Rhaegar, Jorah and Daryl face down Zombies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Wow, I somehow missed this thread. Hmm...need something relevant to say. Jon is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Wow, I somehow missed this thread. Hmm...need something relevant to say.Jon is awesome. I also suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I also suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark . Oh, damn. How did I miss that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've just started re-reading the ironborn arc(s), and found a startling pair of passages in Theon's second chapter in A Clash of Kings. I'm sure this has been picked up on before, but I'll drop my write-up into the pot just in case... Though there were very few references to songs in this chapter, and even fewer that seemed meaningful, I did find a very intriguing mention in one of Theon's laughable attempts to seduce Esgred: What other prince do we know who was so enamored with a woman, whose sharp wit was a respite from the gloom of his life, that he kept her in a tower like a princess in a song? I'll give you a hint: he also played the high harp. That's right: Rhaegar Targaryen! This entire passage strongly evokes images of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy—and taken as a symbolic representation of such, could be considered evidence that Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship was not only about cocks and cunts, but love. If that wasn't enough of a Targaryen allusion for one chapter, Asha later makes the following comment to Theon: If you hear "You know nothing" and don't immediately think "Jon Snow," you haven't been paying attention. With Ygritte's catchphrase as a foundation for applying this passage to Jon, we can make several other connections: the initial reference to a case of mistaken identity, the time he spent as a wolf, his sudden emergence as a prince with questionable legitimacy. Considering the previous allusion to Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the Tower of Joy, this all points to Jon being their son, the secret Targaryen prince raised as a wolf's bastard. Very nice. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Also: "...like a princess in a song." I wonder which 'song' might that be? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Maybe you should actually see how Dan actually said it. The Video that corresponds to that Collider article is word for word verbatim from GoT 2013 Emmy Panel. Begin @ 3:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkzodgRaze8 GRRM: I asked them a few pointed questions to determine whether they'd actually read the books or... and they gave me the right answers... MC: he asked you a specific question and you guys guessed? Dan: he asked us... Who is Jon Snow's Mother? we discussed this before, we gave him an answer, a shocking answer, he didn't actually say whether it was right or wrong, but the smile on his face, we knew we had passed... **Dan was saying 'a shocking answer' a bit sarcastically (you can hear David giggle next to him), maybe to cover George for saying they got it right just a minute before this. But to me, D&D seem to get the answer as most of us here concluded, that Jon's Mother was Lyanna. So the nytimes article was much more telling, it was more direct. “We had a whole conversation about it,” Mr. Benioff said, “and George was pleased that we got the answer right.” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/arts/television/game-of-thrones-on-hbo-from-george-r-r-martin-novels.html?_r=2& You know that if they just said Wylla, and sarcastically called it a shocking answer, it would still fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaginepageant Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Also:"...like a princess in a song."I wonder which 'song' might that be? ;) There are quite a few mentions of songs In Theon's first chapter, including the very curious, "The Drowned God had made them to reave and rape, to carve out kingdoms and write their names in fire and blood and song." Targaryen words and a song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 You know that if they just said Wylla, and sarcastically called it a shocking answer, it would still fit... And they would be terrible readers, which was the point of GRRM asking the question in the first place--to see if these men who wanted to turn his books into a TV show had actually done anything more than a surface reading because he really had to be sold the idea of a show. He wasn't exactly a huge fan of the idea at first. There are quite a few mentions of songs In Theon's first chapter, including the very curious, "The Drowned God had made them to reave and rape, to carve out kingdoms and write their names in fire and blood and song." Targaryen words and a song? Oh wow. Another excellent catch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 And they would be terrible readers, which was the point of GRRM asking the question in the first place--to see if these men who wanted to turn his books into a TV show had actually done anything more than a surface reading because he really had to be sold the idea of a show. He wasn't exactly a huge fan of the idea at first. Oh wow. Another excellent catch! You're the one who told me that apparently no casual fan has heard of RLJ, so why would they need anything more than a surface reading level to appeal to the masses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 You're the one who told me that apparently no casual fan has heard of RLJ, so why would they need anything more than a surface reading level to appeal to the masses? ...what? I really have no idea what you're saying. GRRM sat down with D and D--the two men who wanted to turn his books into a TV show. He wasn't sure he wanted them to do it. In order to test D and D, to see if they had really read his books and done more than a surface level reading to see if they "got it", he asked who Jon's mother was. They got the answer right. Why would that be his test question if the answer is as simple as "Wylla" as Ned says in his POV? Second, they only told the masses that it was "shocking" AKA : not Wylla because to the masses, it must be what Ned said. But that's not shocking. Third, why are they trying to appeal to the masses? It's not about D and D trying to appeal to the masses by not telling GRRM's story. They are telling GRRM's story. Which means sticking with what he has planned in the large scope--lie Jon's parents being a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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