BearQueen87 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How do we know either Robb OR Jon are good at jousting? WF being so far north and the kids never traveled out of the North in general and likely never fought in tourneys. They aren't squires nor knights (knights being a rare sight north of the Neck). Claiming that one is a better jouster than the other seems...tenouous at best since they likely had very little tourney practice. Robb and Jon likely rode horses together and practiced at fighting with lances...tourney jousting, not so much. ETA: and Jon not being as skilled at horsemanship as Lyanna means very little. He is a good rider, but not as good as his mom. I'm a good cook, but not as good as my mom. Is my parentage suddenly in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 127 Already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 127 Already! Party at 150!?! Ser Creighton can bring more Stamos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Seeing as he mentions riding horses immediately after, I'd say he was talking about fighting on horseback, in which case then yes Robb would be the better jouster. I've seen people try to take the horsemanship thing to mean that Jon is one of the best riders in Winterfell (by arguing that if he's as good as anyone then he's as good as the best) to make a connection to Lyanna, but that's just absolutely false. When you're described as being as good as everyone else, you are being described as being average. People who have played sports know the "as good as anyone" term and it just means that you're good enough to be there. Your talent merits you a spot on that team, but you're not outstanding, nor are you the weakest link. You're just an average player compared to everyone else. Even if you want to disagree with me on the use of that term, you're free to do that, but as Harwin notes to Arya, he and his father were in a class of their own when it comes to horsemanship. So Jon most assuredly is not as good as the best riders in Winterfell, as the best were Hullen and Harwin and they were above everyone else. So not matter what, Jon is not an elite rider. And Jon looks like Ned. Ned himself thinks that Jon looks like he did when he was younger. He has the Stark features and would bear a resemblance to Lyanna through that, but he is said to look like a young Ned. Jesus, really? Are you so biased against Jon that you can't even admit his riding prowess despite the numerous times we've been told about it? "And I sit a horse as well as anyone in the castle." "You’re certain to be a builder, and Jon’s certain to be a ranger. He’s the best sword and the best rider among us" “I’m a better swordsman and a better rider than any of you” The garron shied away from him when he approached, no doubt frightened by the blood on his face, but Jon calmed him with a few quiet words and finally got close enough to take the reins." How did I ever mount her before, without saddle or stirrups, and a sword in one hand? That was another question he could not answer. As for your argument, "being good with a lance" doesn't mean "Robb's a better horseman". They aren't equivalent. If Robb HAD been better than him, he would have said so. But Jon specifically says that he rides a horse as well as ANYONE in the Castle...which doesn't mean 'average'. Because I seriously doubt they only have 'average' riders at Winterfell. And if Jon can ride as well as ANY of them, that means he can ride as well as the best riders in the castle. Unless you honestly think that just ANYONE could mount a horse without a saddle or stirrups, all while holding a sword in one hand and fighting off Wildlings. Because that doesn't sound like something the 'average' rider can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ETA: and Jon not being as skilled at horsemanship as Lyanna means very little. He is a good rider, but not as good as his mom. I'm a good cook, but not as good as my mom. Is my parentage suddenly in question. Yes. Yes, it is. Sorry to break it to you like this, but hey...you've got to face some hard truth at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How do we know either Robb OR Jon are good at jousting? WF being so far north and the kids never traveled out of the North in general and likely never fought in tourneys. They aren't squires nor knights (knights being a rare sight north of the Neck). Claiming that one is a better jouster than the other seems...tenouous at best since they likely had very little tourney practice. Robb and Jon likely rode horses together and practiced at fighting with lances...tourney jousting, not so much. ETA: and Jon not being as skilled at horsemanship as Lyanna means very little. He is a good rider, but not as good as his mom. I'm a good cook, but not as good as my mom. Is my parentage suddenly in question. What does the fact that they might not have jousted in tourneys have anything to do with deciding who was better between the two of them? They're competing against each other. It'll become very obvious who was better when one keeps beating the other. And the fact that we don't know if either was good doesn't matter to this scenario. If both are bad, but Robb is less bad, he's still better than Jon. Seeing as they trained under a knight, and Brandon Stark was an excellent jouster, then it's clear that you can be a good jouster despite being from the north. But what matters is that Robb was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes. Yes, it is. Sorry to break it to you like this, but hey...you've got to face some hard truth at some point. Damn it. Is Ned my mother too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Damn it. Is Ned my mother too? No, silly. Ashara is your mother. She's everyone's mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You know, I'm starting to suspect a lot of "chain yanking" here. No one could sersiously argue against Jon and the clues this long and really mean it. They just leave and take their "haterisms" :thumbsdown: to another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Damn it. Is Ned my mother too? And Rhaegar was starting a Lebensborn for dragon babies, getting one on everyone from his wife, her handmaid, the tKotLT. Hell, maybe Cersei WAS next. There must be one more, and more, and more......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Barristan Selmy could not dispute the truth of that. He had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen. Jon laughed, laughed like a drunk or a madman, and his men laughed with him. He (Joffrey) laughed and when the king laughs, the court laughs with him.I do love this one. I can't wait when the series is over and people will finally see these clues for what they were all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I do love this one. I can't wait when the series is over and people will finally see these clues for what they were all along. Yeah, there seems to be too many of them to just be a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 "You’re certain to be a builder, and Jon’s certain to be a ranger. He’s the best sword and the best rider among us"“I’m a better swordsman and a better rider than any of you” Did you just try and use examples of people who have never ridden a horse before in their life to prove that Jon is a good rider? I'd hope that Jon was better than them The garron shied away from him when he approached, no doubt frightened by the blood on his face, but Jon calmed him with a few quiet words and finally got close enough to take the reins."How did I ever mount her before, without saddle or stirrups, and a sword in one hand? That was another question he could not answer. First one means nothing. Second one I suppose every injured person in battle is an amazing rider. It shows he's good and is trained. Doesn't show he's excellent As for your argument, "being good with a lance" doesn't mean "Robb's a better horseman". They aren't equivalent. If Robb HAD been better than him, he would have said so. But Jon specifically says that he rides a horse as well as ANYONE in the Castle...which doesn't mean 'average'. Because I seriously doubt they only have 'average' riders at Winterfell. And if Jon can ride as well as ANY of them, that means he can ride as well as the best riders in the castle. Unless you honestly think that just ANYONE could mount a horse without a saddle or stirrups, all while holding a sword in one hand and fighting off Wildlings. Because that doesn't sound like something the 'average' rider can do. See look everybody, he's doing exactly as I said. Trying to say that if you're as good as anyone, you're as good as the best of them. But wait, how can Jon be as good as ANYONE in the castle like you claim, when we know that Hullen and Harwin were better than him? He clearly can't be as good as ANYONE in the castle then, because we have 2 people better than him at least. So if he's not literally as good as ANYONE in the castle, then it's an exaggeration. Seeing as the phrase in real life is used to denote someone who's good, but average, it means this. Because it literally can't mean what you're trying to say. Not only that, but if Jon is as good as ANYONE in the castle, then he's as good as Robb no? In which case, if Jon and Robb are as good as each other at riding horses, but Robb is better with a lance, then Robb is most assuredly the better jouster. It's not that I have a bias against Jon. It's that you have a bias for Jon which doesn't let you look at things logically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 SJ4iy is a woman. Just for you education. That is all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0LordCommanderSnow0 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I do love this one. I can't wait when the series is over and people will finally see these clues for what they were all along. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Did you just try and use examples of people who have never ridden a horse before in their life to prove that Jon is a good rider? I'd hope that Jon was better than them No, I didn't, in fact. This is medieval times. What on earth would make you think that none of these kids have NEVER RIDDEN A HORSE? It is the ONLY mode of transportation at the time, and while a farmer might not have as nice of a horse as a Lord, he sure as hell is going to have a horse. Even an old man making a fire in the middle of nowhere has a friggen' horse to ride. There's no point in even addressing the rest since you are so obviously trying to infer shit that isn't there to make your non-existant point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yolo Swaggins Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It'll be a good day when TWOW is released and R=L=J is confirmed :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It'll be a good day when TWOW is released and R=L=J is confirmed :) I swear to God, I'm throwing a party. Right here in RLJ. The loudest damn party this forum has ever heard. PS: your avatar makes me unbelievably happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I swear to God, I'm throwing a party. Right here in RLJ. The loudest damn party this forum has ever heard. PS: your avatar makes me unbelievably happy Same. I want it fucking confirmed so the trolls will shut the hell up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No, I didn't, in fact. This is medieval times. What on earth would make you think that these kids have NEVER RIDDEN A HORSE? It is the ONLY mode of transportation at the time, and while a farmer might not have as nice of a horse as a Lord, he sure as hell is going to have a horse. Even an old man making a fire in the middle of nowhere has a friggen' horse to ride.There's no point in even addressing the rest since you are so obviously trying to infer shit that isn't there to make your non-existant point. Does anything you say here change the fact that Jon should damn well have been better than them as he had been riding all of his life and had been trained under knights, lords, and a master of horse? So again, I damn well hope Jon was better at riding than them, in which case, how does this showcase Jon's skill when he's competing against the piss of the realm? And yup, all I'm doing is inferring here Arya kicked her horse back to a gallop. Run, she thought, run for Riverrun, run for home. Had she lost them? She took one quick look, and there was Harwin six yards back and gaining. No, she thought, no, he can't, not him, it isn't fair.Both horses were lathered and flagging by the time he came up beside her, reached over, and grabbed her bridle. Arya was breathing hard herself then. She knew the fight was done. "You ride like a northman, milady," Harwin said when he'd drawn them to a halt. "Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna. But my father was master of horse, remember." So again keep deluding yourself into thinking that Jon was as good at riding as anyone in Winterfell, when he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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