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[MOD]



Folks,



A gentle reminder that this is a thread for discussion of the books to a point where people are "still reading" ACOK.



Discussion of the show is not permitted here. Discussion of anything after ACOK must be posted in spoiler tags.



As a result, a series of posts have been deleted.



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I believe GRRM that it was a coincidence, and I'm really relieved because of it - because using something that's specifically a 21st century cultural thing to show that a character in a quasi-medieval universe is homosexual, would be really, really stupid and cheesy.


It's possible to figure out based on the books that Renly is homosexual because of clues that he and Loras were lovers, and that he was not sexually interested in women.



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Their were a good amount of hints, even in the first book. While I not a big fan of Renly(mostly  for his lack of love for family and for agreeing with an plot to killed a  pregnant Dany and her unborn baby) , his relationship with Loras was never an issue with me. 

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This honestly really surprised me. If there were hints, I picked up on absolutely none of them. I suppose that I wasn't paying attention to the Knight of Flowers in those scenes; with so many knights running around, he seemed more like a background character and I didn't even really commit his name to memory, so things like who stayed to pray with Renly went over my head.

Was Renly's wife realy still a maid? As I recall it was definitely said that she was when she married Renly, but not that she still was now that they were married. And how would anyone know that, anyway? [EDIT: I hadn't read that part of the story yet. :blush:]

Actually, is there a list of the "hints" by chapter that I could see? Because now I'm interested. And it's making me wonder what other important things I missed in my rush to learn how the political struggles would turn out.

Edited by Pseudodemetrius

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Yes he is....it was also reported to Tyrion that Loras was filled with rage when he saw the Kings body,and slew three guards....they must be lovers.

 

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@False Aegon

I don't have a list but here are a few that came to mind. Only one of them is in ACoK, the other two are from ASoS.

 

First, when Stannis and Renly parley, Renly brings up Margaery:

Renly - You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid

Stannis - In your bed she'll die like one

 

Second, when Tyrion comments that he can never marry as a Kingsguard, Loras comments:

'When the sun has set, no candle can replace it.

 

Third, at a moment when Jaime gets angry at Loras:

Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I'll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.

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On 11/30/2015 at 10:27 PM, False Aegon said:

Was Renly's wife realy still a maid? As I recall it was definitely said that she was when she married Renly, but not that she still was now that they were married. And how would anyone know that, anyway? [EDIT: I hadn't read that part of the story yet. :blush:]

I doubt it, but the Tyrells would claim she was a maiden to the Lannisters either way. But back in realfact, it would have been silly of Renly not to get to producing an heir as soon as possible, starting on his wedding night. Being gay is no barrier; tons of gay men have fathered children to keep up appearances and/or continue their family line.

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No worries man, I didn't immediately pick up on Renly's homosexuality on the first read of GoT and ACoK as all of the hints are pretty subtle up to that point.  In later books it is made much more explicit but in the first two books there's just some japes by LF (which I attributed to LF being LF), alone-time for Renly and Loras (which could just be because they are close friends), Loras freaking out and killing the RG members after Renly dies, etc.  Nothing really explicit that a casual first-time reader should be expected to pick up on if you ask me...

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It was very, very low-key. Which is weird to be honest?

We catch a glimpse of Renly's last moments with Catelyn, and she who flinchs at almost every little thing of the world doesn't alarm nor comment on the obvious preference he has for Lora's company instead of... Anyone's... Nor at Stannis's "In your bed she's like to die that way" (a maid). She gladly spent an awful chunk of time rambling and rambling about how ugly and stupid Brienne was, though.

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George also confirmed it in an SSM.

I'd like to add that Renly is just gay. He wasn't bisexual nor was Loras an "exception" to his straightness (that yaoi trope seriously makes me roll my eyes). 

 

Spoiler

He was "bemused" when Arianne hit on him on a visit to  Dorne, and if the Tyrells are to be believed he never touched Margaery. I personally believe them because there's been lots of foreshadowing she's going to die a maiden. Come to think of it the idea of a teenage Arianne trying to seduce a teenage Renly and only succeeding in confusing him is hilarious, I wish we could have seen that. :D

 

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