Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 ok, so I was reading a story where vampires play a pretty big role and all was going well...kids being stupid and romanticizing something very dangerous. But then somewhere past the half way point we find out that the heroine is a 1000 yr old vampire. WTF! From tv shows (Buffy, Angel) to popular fiction, there seems to be a movement to make it seem like some vampires can be good. (and we wonder why our youth romanticize them) I say this is absolute nonsense. Vampires can never be good. They are dead so they have no soul or essence or what ever you want to call it. They are little more than animals with a desire to feed. How they manage to keep most of their intelligence, I have no idea. So what are your thoughts on vampires? Can they be good? Can they be cursed with a soul? Can they overcome their basic feeding desire and serve the greater good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noontidal Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I am in agreement with Vampire Hunter D on this account. All vampires will eventually give in to their cravings, and in correlation count as evil deserving extermination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Vampires are undead creatures that feed on human blood. They are inherently evil. The problem with vampires in fiction is that vampires are also cool (they look cool, they have cool powers, they're seductive, dark creatures). So, what happens when evil meets cool? You have a cool, yet evil, character. Cool characters are nice to have around, people like them, they'll watch the show and say (whatshisname the vampire is so cool!). But evil characters tend to play the antagonist role. So either they're succesful and defeat the protagonists (which you don't want, because the show will end), or they get killed (which you don't really want either, because they're cool, they have a fan-base, they sell merchandising...). A third solution would be to have him fail miserably one time after another without actually getting killed, but such recurrent bad guys tend to be seen as silly and pathetic (very uncool), so you might as well kill them. The obvious solution is for this bad guy to become good. So he becomes a reluctant side-kick of sorts to the good guy/girl, while still being dark and brooding and maybe slightly lacking scruples. This often happens with bad guys in fiction, if they end up being too cool, they run a considerable risk of becoming good (or at least not so bad they can't coexist with the main character). There's thus a long history of good vampires in fiction. Maybe they're weird semi-vampires (like Blade), or they find friendship or love, or they're simply rebellious anti-sistem vampires... The excuses are endless (I saw an anime where the good guy was a vampire who had been genetically modified to feed on other vampires, and I think a similar idea appears in Blade 2). That said, vampires are not real, so there's no set of rules that should forcibly apply to them. Should they hate garlick? Be afraid of crucifixes? Well originally they did, but Anne Rice came along and decided she didn't like it, so vampires in her books wouldn't. Fiction is a free-for-all. You can take what you like from whatever has been done and innovate as you please. If a writer wants to write a book about vampires portraying them as good and misunderstood creatures, then why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darian Frey Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 nonononoNO! They can NOT be good. Anyone who romantisizes vampires can just, i dunno, get shunted. They have no 'good' side. They simply hunger for control and dominance over weak minds. I will go as far as to say that they're not all senseless crazed savages looking for their next snack. But i can't be arsed to go into all that. But they're not nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noontidal Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Ann Rice is an idiot and a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bana Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Ann Rice can do that to you. Take me Lestat!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Vico Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Ann Rice can do that to you. Take me Lestat!!! It partly depends, I think, on whether vampirism is treated as a biological transformation or a metaphysical one. In the classic Hammer films, vampirism entailed the soul leaving the body once a victim is taken, and a demon taking that soul's place. In more modern versions, the "evil" of vampirism comes from the need to kill other human beings for survival, and the sense of existential separatness. Or perhaps it's that despite the unnatural appetites of vampires, they actually still can choose not to do what they do -- and so the fact that they can choose to be good makes them evil. Very Augustinian (hence also the highly sexual nature of vampires). A Thomistic approach would emphasize the role of grace in turning any vampire to the good -- which is essentially the interpretation Buffy and Angel put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrancy Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Hmmm...I don't think that they're inherently 'evil'; that they have this mad urge to do bad things etc. I like to think of them as a different species all together, who look at us like we look at cattle; I'm pretty sure that cows probably think we're pretty damn evil, but that doesn't make it so. This is why I don't like the romaticisation of vampires, especially all that bullshit about vampires falling in love with humans; humans are their source of food, and just as we don't fall in love with pepperoni pizza, they shouldn't be psychologically able to fall in love with us. Also, since when does super-human powers and eternal life equate to limp-wristed angstness? So in conclusion, like zombies, vampires shouldn't be discriminated against because of their food source. They can't hep their nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noontidal Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 So in conclusion, like zombies, vampires shouldn't be discriminated against because of their food source. They can't hep their nature. If most cows could speak English fluently, I'd reconsider them as a food source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Good Lord, I agree with Noontidal. Yes, Anne Rice is a total idiot and more or less created a sub-culture of people who are devoted to her sub-par books describing supposedly "erotic" vampirism or something. I read the first book and almost cried myself to sleep at nights due to its abysmal quality. I don't believe vampires can be good, I can buy "conflicted" if described very, very well (again: not Anne Rice) but few authors can pull that off without landing in tacky-country. It lies in the very nature of vampires that they are, in fact, creatures of evil since they feed on blood. ie. the very symbol of life. The whole "my pure and true love will cure this Bad Boy and make him love me forever" thing makes me grit my teeth and roll my eyes. Now, crappy literature or not, what annoys me more is the sub-culture of "ZOMG vampires are so kewl" that seems to be trendy today. I'm all for sub-cultures and avoidance of the mainstream, but "living" vampire RPG to confirm your status as a vampiristic being....even I have a hard time accepting that stuff as anywhere near sane. Call me a stuck up elitist bitch if you want. In the end, had zombies been as pretty as vampires in popular culture, teenage girls would have fallen over themselves to admit their "true zombie brain-eating identity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 That said, vampires are not real, *runs into the corner and cries* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Sun Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 This is why I don't like the romaticisation of vampires, especially all that bullshit about vampires falling in love with humans; humans are their source of food, and just as we don't fall in love with pepperoni pizza, they shouldn't be psychologically able to fall in love with us. Now I have these weird ideas about a Vampire society where they have tales and movies about the humans like we have them about animals. Cutifying the food source. The kid's movie about the little piglet Babe comes to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 If most cows could speak English fluently, I'd reconsider them as a food source. Cows maybe. Pigs, never. Streaky bacon trumps all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Good Lord, I agree with Noontidal. Yes, Anne Rice is a total idiot and more or less created a sub-culture of people who are devoted to her sub-par books describing supposedly "erotic" vampirism or something. I read the first book and almost cried myself to sleep at nights due to its abysmal quality. I don't believe vampires can be good, I can buy "conflicted" if described very, very well (again: not Anne Rice) but few authors can pull that off without landing in tacky-country. It lies in the very nature of vampires that they are, in fact, creatures of evil since they feed on blood. ie. the very symbol of life. The whole "my pure and true love will cure this Bad Boy and make him love me forever" thing makes me grit my teeth and roll my eyes. Now, crappy literature or not, what annoys me more is the sub-culture of "ZOMG vampires are so kewl" that seems to be trendy today. I'm all for sub-cultures and avoidance of the mainstream, but "living" vampire RPG to confirm your status as a vampiristic being....even I have a hard time accepting that stuff as anywhere near sane. Call me a stuck up elitist bitch if you want. In the end, had zombies been as pretty as vampires in popular culture, teenage girls would have fallen over themselves to admit their "true zombie brain-eating identity". I agree with all of this. (and Ann Rice's sister is also a sucky writer and a worse historian---must run in the family) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayed Man Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 They're fictional. They can be good, bad, purple, or Libertarian. Geekiest. Thread. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bana Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Hey-I like Ann Rice. She makes me hot for vampire love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noontidal Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I don't believe vampires can be good, I can buy "conflicted" if described very, very well (again: not Anne Rice) but few authors can pull that off without landing in tacky-country. It lies in the very nature of vampires that they are, in fact, creatures of evil since they feed on blood. ie. the very symbol of life. The whole "my pure and true love will cure this Bad Boy and make him love me forever" thing makes me grit my teeth and roll my eyes I do happen to think Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust did this as well as it can be done. In the end, no matter how much that Vampire 'loved' the girl, eventually his desires would win out and he would feed on her. Heck, D himself isn't immune to the bloodlust and admits that someday he too may have to be hunted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 They're fictional. hence the (yeah, I know) part of the title. to answer it is required to suspend disbeif for a moment or two. I mean, this is a forum dedicated to a fanasty series, right? Geekiest. Thread. Ever. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 They are as evil as men are good. And as long as they're cool, they benefit from the good guys plot-shield anyway. Now the question is... what about witches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Paladin Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Cows maybe. Pigs, never. Streaky bacon trumps all. You might want to reconsider that, as it makes you a potential cannibal. Whenever a human gets cooked, say in a house fire, it is usually described as "smelling like bacon." Don't go Soylent Green on us, XRay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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