Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Taenqyrhae

Sansa will marry Jon Snow

Recommended Posts

Mentally and emotionally they are siblings. Adopted siblings in the same family might not share any DNA at all, but would most of them be squicked at the idea of having sex with each other? I'm going to say probably yes in the vast majority of cases.

I have an adopted brother and so does a friend of mine from high school. Years ago we talked about how disgusted we were by people who claimed that adopted siblings "didn't count" when it comes to incest. I've chatted with a number of others on-line that feel the same way. Trust me, it counts just as often as with bio-sibs, provided the siblings are raised as family, which Jon was. Half sib still counts.

Plus, something I think people don't always consider - incest taboos are not biological, they are cultural and/or religious in nature. We have incest taboos because we're taught them, not because we're born with them. That's why they've changed throughout history. Jon isn't going to suddenly want to marry Sansa or Arya if he finds out he's a Targ, because brother/sister incest is something he's been culturally and religiously raised to find immoral. The Targs are OK with incest because they've been raised with the idea that for them, it's normal. Even then, some of the Targs chose not to marry family, because it's not a biological thing.

It's also why trying to argue that Jamie and Cersei must be secret Targs due to incest is dumb as hell. They chose to break a Westerosi incest taboo, it has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just imagined a talk between Samwell (the new Maester of Winterfell), Jon, Sansa, Arya and Rickon.



Sam: My king, now it's proven you're the trueborn heir of Prince Rhaegar, you should totally adopt the Targ habit of marriage and here we have two sisters to do so (which in fact are your cousins, but hey, close enough)


Jon: :shocked:


Sansa: :shocked:


Arya: :shocked:


Rickon: I'm hungry and I ran out of walnuts ages ago...


Sansa: Jeez, I totally forgot those lemoncakes I left in the oven in seven hells! *rushes off*


Arya: ... Needlework! Septa Lemore is going to be angry with me if I don't finish it properly! *rushes off'


Jon: ... Oath! I'm still bound to the oath, although the wall doesn't exist anymore... but hey, you just gave me a good reason to rebuild it! *rushes off*


Sam: uhm - hello? ... *turns to Rickon*


Rickon: Before you come up with another clever suggestion, remember where I spent the last couple of years. And I'm still hungry.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just imagined a talk between Samwell (the new Maester of Winterfell), Jon, Sansa, Arya and Rickon.

Sam: My king, now it's proven you're the trueborn heir of Prince Rhaegar, you should totally adopt the Targ habit of marriage and here we have two sisters to do so (which in fact are your cousins, but hey, close enough)

Jon: :shocked:

Sansa: :shocked:

Arya: :shocked:

Rickon: I'm hungry and I ran out of walnuts ages ago...

Sansa: Jeez, I totally forgot those lemoncakes I left in the oven in seven hells! *rushes off*

Arya: ... Needlework! Septa Lemore is going to be angry with me if I don't finish it properly! *rushes off'

Jon: ... Oath! I'm still bound to the oath, although the wall doesn't exist anymore... but hey, you just gave me a good reason to rebuild it! *rushes off*

Sam: uhm - hello? ... *turns to Rickon*

Rickon: Before you come up with another clever suggestion, remember where I spent the last couple of years. And I'm still hungry.

:bowdown:

Beyond that, what would be the point politically? I don't see Jon leaving the Night's Watch, and even if GRRM leaves a loophole where he can what marry, what purpose would it serve? ETA: I could see him marrying Val to solidify ties with the new influx of free folk or a strategic southron match if he needs to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure one is Baratheon, which Jeoffrey wasn't really, so there's some wiggle room with the parallel.

This.

Aegon is as Targaryen as Joffery is Baratheon - In Name Only. And it's the names that count for this list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Dany doesn't turn up soon, Jon Connington will start looking for another bride for Aegon. I don't think Arianne will be that bride. There's multiple ways she could be spurned...and the boy Aegon is now, would seem a poor suitor for Arianne. I doubt she'd even want to go along with it, unless Doran asked it of her.



So...If not Arianne, then who? Sansa is the perfect match for Aegon. Once Sansa is freed of Littlefinger, she'd bring the Riverlands, the Vale, and the North into the fold. Jon Connington could not hope for a better match, and Aegon, boy that he is, would be charmed by her looks. Actually, Sansa can charms anyone with her looks and manners... By the time Jon Snow recovers, he might find it an excellent idea, too. Especially if he learns of R+L.



As for Jon, politically, it might make sense for him to seek an alliance with the Tyrells. It's a stretch, because lots of things need to happen before the Tyrells are freed from KL, but then again, lots of things need to happen for Jon to even look at marriage prospects.... Sansa and Margaery's friendship in Kingslanding would go a long way to help, as would Sansa's knowledge of the Tyrells role in Joffrey's poisoning. Her and Jon's experiences, would shape them both into shrewd players of the game.



By the time the Tyrells turn their back on KL, Margaery will have poor marriage prospects. The Tyrells will be shunned from all sides for their cloak turning ways, and Margaery's dead husbands... the Tyrells have effectively lead their house into an impasse...someone political savvy would take advantage of this situation, and see potential in such an alliance.... The Starks, number one victims of Lannister machinations, would find in the spurned Tyrells a 'kindred spirit', imo. And if Jon is branded a turn cloak or oath breaker himself, he'd be in no position to argue.... House Tyrell, is also still wealthier than most other Houses in the 7k. They might have stretched their resources thin because of the war, but so did everyone else, besides the Vale lords and the Dornish.



Mace might dislike the idea of his precious daughter marrying a bastard, but if said bastard was to become the military leader behind the Northern revival, he might find the idea has some merit after all... in any case, there seems to be some sort of foreshadowing involving the Tyrells and Starks/Jon in the text, like Loras's three roses sigil, for ex.



So... Sansa + Aegon; Jon + Margaery.



But, in spite of spouses I'd see Jon and Sansa's ultimate loyalty to be to each other and Arya. So, as AppleMartini suggested, Sansa/Jon/Arya, as Aegon and his sister v. 2, without the incest...where Sansa is the politically master mind, charming all and everyone with courtesies and false innocence; Arya a spy master and assassin, and Jon, the military leader.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everytime someone suggest the possibility of Jon and Sansa marrying each other the arguments against it are usually that they are brother and sister and have no romantic feelings for each other, but do you really think that IF there were a reason for these two marrying for political reasons anyone wanting this marriage to happen would care for Jon and Sansa's icky feelings. I don't even believe they would feel disgusted about the idea of marrying each other. It would probably feel weird at first, but eventually they would grow to love each other.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fans not only ignore the personal POVs of other characters, but ignore the Jon Snow POVs as well, Jon Snow was disgusted by the idea of becoming the Lord of Winterfell, that something that was from his brother, and hell, after his brief romance with Ygritte he was even more disgusted in breaking the oath of the Night Watch. So tell me how Jon Snow would end marring someone if he is as honorable as his father? No, he would no marry anyone. But that dont really matter, because he is dead, the only way that he could come back is as Zombie or Warg.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even regarding the fact that it's not true that Sansa and Jon don't see themselves as siblings, this concept is the exact reason I can't see this happening. Come on, this is GRRM we're talking about, who's included a family with generations of full blooded siblings marrying each other in this series, not to mention parent/child incest. He's not going to deliberately write them as practically strangers just so the readers will be more comfortable with an eventual hook up, like some sort of incest version of 'no homo'. Honestly, I think even GRRM would probably weirded out at the degree people try to disassociate the two of them as siblings just so they'll bang. (otoh, this is probably one of the few ways Jon/Arya feels more likely - siblings with strong bonds that turn sexual seems more GRRM's style, a la Jaehaerys/Shaera and Jaime/Cersei, but I can't see it happening either.)

I'm also tired of these 'theories' that treat Sansa as a sexual object instead of having a mind of her own. I don't want to look back at her storyline and see it basically a succession of who's going to sexual assault/kiss/marry Sansa against her will in this chapter?, not to mention being treated as a prize for someone's favorite self-insert (or vise versa). And after all, the Ashford tourney wasn't even completed, if you're trying to invoke it. She certainly didn't marry any of the champions, or even have a winner unless Dunk indirectly counts through his trial.

:agree: The champions weren't even her suitors or anything, it was a ceremonial thing. As for Dunk, he had nothing to do with her and observed she wasn't even that "fair", they were calling her "Fair Maid" just because her father was organizing the tourney in the honor of her birthday.

I have an adopted brother and so does a friend of mine from high school. Years ago we talked about how disgusted we were by people who claimed that adopted siblings "didn't count" when it comes to incest. I've chatted with a number of others on-line that feel the same way. Trust me, it counts just as often as with bio-sibs, provided the siblings are raised as family, which Jon was. Half sib still counts.

Plus, something I think people don't always consider - incest taboos are not biological, they are cultural and/or religious in nature. We have incest taboos because we're taught them, not because we're born with them. That's why they've changed throughout history. Jon isn't going to suddenly want to marry Sansa or Arya if he finds out he's a Targ, because brother/sister incest is something he's been culturally and religiously raised to find immoral. The Targs are OK with incest because they've been raised with the idea that for them, it's normal. Even then, some of the Targs chose not to marry family, because it's not a biological thing.

It's also why trying to argue that Jamie and Cersei must be secret Targs due to incest is dumb as hell. They chose to break a Westerosi incest taboo, it has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with choice.

:agree:

I've just imagined a talk between Samwell (the new Maester of Winterfell), Jon, Sansa, Arya and Rickon.

Sam: My king, now it's proven you're the trueborn heir of Prince Rhaegar, you should totally adopt the Targ habit of marriage and here we have two sisters to do so (which in fact are your cousins, but hey, close enough)

Jon: :shocked:

Sansa: :shocked:

Arya: :shocked:

Rickon: I'm hungry and I ran out of walnuts ages ago...

Sansa: Jeez, I totally forgot those lemoncakes I left in the oven in seven hells! *rushes off*

Arya: ... Needlework! Septa Lemore is going to be angry with me if I don't finish it properly! *rushes off'

Jon: ... Oath! I'm still bound to the oath, although the wall doesn't exist anymore... but hey, you just gave me a good reason to rebuild it! *rushes off*

Sam: uhm - hello? ... *turns to Rickon*

Rickon: Before you come up with another clever suggestion, remember where I spent the last couple of years. And I'm still hungry.

:bowdown:

This.

Aegon is as Targaryen as Joffery is Baratheon - In Name Only. And it's the names that count for this list.

And you're still missing an Arryn (as in, Robert) on the list to even make that part of the theory work, Just sayin'.

Everytime someone suggest the possibility of Jon and Sansa marrying each other the arguments against it are usually that they are brother and sister and have no romantic feelings for each other, but do you really think that IF there were a reason for these two marrying for political reasons anyone wanting this marriage to happen would care for Jon and Sansa's icky feelings.

:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This theory has always seemed possible, but I really can't picture Jon going along with that. Jon never seemed to think of her that way.

Then again, Victarion never thought of Asha that way either, and we saw how that awkward scene almost played out...

Well, he has a thing for redheads... But I agree, he's not likely to be interested in the daughter of his father who happens to look like Cat who was always a bitch to him... And would she marry someone who looks much like her father?

I'm more inclined to the original theory of Aegon being Sansa's suitor. Besides, Jon's future seems to be beyond the wall, and his heart more inclined to girls who don't hesitate to get their hands dirty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously, this "Tourney of Ashford foreshadowing" theory should take its rightful place among the "there are no lemon trees in Braavos" and "HS=HR" theories.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously, this "Tourney of Ashford foreshadowing" theory should take its rightful place among the "there are no lemon trees in Braavos" and "HS=HR" theories.

yeah, unless the only thing that matters is who these suitors claim to be, and the theory thus leads to the conclusion that Sansa's suitor will be a Targaryen only in name, like Joffrey was a Baratheon only in name...

So, instead of leading to the conclusion she will marry Jon, it should lead to the conclusion she will marry Aegon. If the real identity mattered, and not just the claims/names, Sansa's Lyonel Baratehon should have been Gendry. Not Joffrey. If her Lyonel is Joffrey though, then secret identities are irrelevant to this theory. Hence, her Prince Valarr would be Aegon, not Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah, unless the only thing that matters is who these suitors claim to be, and the theory thus leads to the conclusion that Sansa's suitor will be a Targaryen only in name, like Joffrey was a Baratheon only in name...

So, instead of leading to the conclusion she will marry Jon, it should lead to the conclusion she will marry Aegon. If the real identity mattered, and not just the claims/names, Sansa's Lyonel Baratehon should have been Gendry. Not Joffrey. If her Lyonel is Joffrey though, then secret identities are irrelevant to this theory. Hence, her Prince Valarr would be Aegon, not Jon.

Oh, we could instead conclude that who some ceremonial champions to the daughter of some random lord organizing a tourney 90 years ago were (none of whom were her suitors anyway) actually has nothing to do with who Sansa will or will not marry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, we could instead conclude that who some ceremonial champions to the daughter of some random lord organizing a tourney 90 years ago were (none of whom were her suitors anyway) actually has nothing to do with who Sansa will or will not marry.

Yeah, we can. Still, you can't ignore author's intent. It might well be just a coincidence, or it might not. GRRM wrote the Tourney of Ashford, the same he chose the names of Sansa' suitors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, we can. Still, you can't ignore author's intent. It might well be just a coincidence, or it might not. GRRM wrote the Tourney of Ashford, the same he chose the names of Sansa' suitors.

Yes, he wrote both those things that have nothing in common with each other.

Sansa's "suitors" mostly come from the Great Houses of Westeros, champions at the tourney, too. Of course there's going to be overlap. If it weren't for the name Hardying, no one would even have paid attention - of course every story is going to feature a Baratheon, Targaryen, Tyrell etc.

You still haven't explained 1) why is "Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Hardying, Targaryen" interpreted as "names of Sansa's suitors" when one of the people she has been betrothed to is an Arryn? And she hasn't been courted by a Targaryen, so you need confirmation bias to even draw that conclusion. 2) How does the tourney at Ashford lead to the conclusion that Sansa will marry Aegon? None of them won the tourney, it wasn't even completed; none of them were suitors to lord Ashford's daughter (who was neither beautiful, according to Dunk, nor coming from a super-highborn and prestigious family that would be likely to marry into the likes of Targaryens) and she didn't marry any of them, as far as we know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ever since Sam dumped Jon for Gilly, Jon has been mooning over Sansa. Or is that Dolorous Edd? Well, one of them anyway.



It is known.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This theory is ballocks. And as people pointed out, very easily disproven. I haven't seen any good explanation for the lack of an Arryn amongst the champions of the Maid at Ashford yet. Perhaps someone who supports the theory can come up with that, but as long as that doesn't happen, I'll put this theory in the bin with the other crackpots.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×