R+L=J v. 129

[JonSnow4President]

:lol:

It's just that is not even mentioned in the show.

The tourney of HH is never mentioned in the show, right?

[sj4iy]

The tourney of HH is never mentioned in the show, right?

Not yet. But I'm sure it's coming.

I think the blue roses are more of an easter egg than a straightforward clue.

[JonSnow4President]

Not yet. But I'm sure it's coming.

I think the blue roses are more of an easter egg than a straightforward clue.

Oh, I wasn't saying they were. Just asking because my mind gets confused between show/book, and it's been a long day at work (with another frickin' day tomorrow. No weekend this week.)

[Ser Creighton]

:lol:It's just that is not even mentioned in the show.

Well they wouldn't be all scary if people new they were harikrishna of Westeros, Balor nearly screwed everything up and gave it away.

[sj4iy]

Well they wouldn't be all scary if people new they were harikrishna of Westeros, Balor nearly screwed everything up and gave it away.

LMAO

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The tourney of HH is never mentioned in the show, right?

Not yet. But I'm sure it's coming.

"...and that Tourney was won by Rhaegar Targaryen!"

(Unsullied:) "Who??"

(book reader:) "Dany's brother!"

(U:) "The one who died?"

(br:) "Aha!"

"...and he crowned Lyanna Stark"

(U:) "Who again?"

(br:) "Ned's sister!"

"until Rhaegar kidnapped her and Robert Baratheon killed him".

(U:) "Wait... Wasn't Rhaegar the brother?"

(br:) "Yes"

(U:) "But Robert didn't kill him... Carl Drogo did!".

[JonSnow4President]

"...and that Tourney was won by Rhaegar Targaryen!"

(Unsullied:) "Who??"

(book reader:) "Dany's brother!"

(U:) "The one who died?"

(br:) "Aha!"

"...and he crowned Lyanna Stark"

(U:) "Who again?"

(br:) "Ned's sister!"

"until Rhaegar kidnapped her and Robert Baratheon killed him".

(U:) "Wait... Wasn't Rhaegar the brother?"

(br:) "Yes"

(U:) "But Robert didn't kill him... Carl Drogo did!".

:idea:

[sj4iy]

"...and that Tourney was won by Rhaegar Targaryen!"

(Unsullied:) "Who??"

(book reader:) "Dany's brother!"

(U:) "The one who died?"

(br:) "Aha!"

"...and he crowned Lyanna Stark"

(U:) "Who again?"

(br:) "Ned's sister!"

"until Rhaegar kidnapped her and Robert Baratheon killed him".

(U:) "Wait... Wasn't Rhaegar the brother?"

(br:) "Yes"

(U:) "But Robert didn't kill him... Carl Drogo did!".

Or, you know...we'll just get a flashback or vision of the entire thing.

[Ser Creighton]

"...and that Tourney was won by Rhaegar Targaryen!"(Unsullied:) "Who??"(book reader:) "Dany's brother!"(U:) "The one who died?"(br:) "Aha!""...and he crowned Lyanna Stark"(U:) "Who again?"(br:) "Ned's sister!""until Rhaegar kidnapped her and Robert Baratheon killed him".(U:) "Wait... Wasn't Rhaegar the brother?"(br:) "Yes"(U:) "But Robert didn't kill him... Carl Drogo did!".

Wait Carl Drogo couldn't kill her brother he was busy on Farscape, with the blue woman named Zhaan. Oh see you are confusing A Game of thrones with Farscape, there is no blue rose it's a blue woman who was actually a flower. God I hate noobs to the show, maybe you should try reading the books or something, the show is clearly to complex for you.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Or, you know...we'll just get a flashback or vision of the entire thing.

"Did they change actors? He doesn't look like Kelly C's brother AT ALL!".

[The Twinslayer]

"...and that Tourney was won by Rhaegar Targaryen!"(Unsullied:) "Who??"(book reader:) "Dany's brother!"(U:) "The one who died?"(br:) "Aha!""...and he crowned Lyanna Stark"(U:) "Who again?"(br:) "Ned's sister!""until Rhaegar kidnapped her and Robert Baratheon killed him".(U:) "Wait... Wasn't Rhaegar the brother?"(br:) "Yes"(U:) "But Robert didn't kill him... Carl Drogo did!".

This is one of the reasons why I think the show might just ditch R+L=J. They really haven't laid down the groundwork and it isn't necessary to the resolution of the show-plot.

[sj4iy]

This is one of the reasons why I think the show might just ditch R+L=J. They really haven't laid down the groundwork and it isn't necessary to the resolution of the show-plot.

They have three seasons left.

It's not as if they don't have time to explain Jon's origins.

We know about Rhaegar already. We know about Lyanna. We know about Rhaegar 'kidnapping' or 'running off' with Lyanna. We know that Ned is hiding something. They aren't changing it.

[markg171]

This is one of the reasons why I think the show might just ditch R+L=J. They really haven't laid down the groundwork and it isn't necessary to the resolution of the show-plot.

There's also the scene where Ned watches Arya train with Syrio and starts to have flashbacks of a fight he was in and this fight seemingly culminates at the same time as Syrio stabs Arya in the gut which causes Ned to grow sad. Which could be an indication that Lyanna died fighting, not from childbirth.

Now whether that's just show plot or actual book canon is up for debate.

[JonSnow4President]

There's also the scene where Ned watches Arya train with Syrio and starts to have flashbacks of a fight he was in and this fight seemingly culminates at the same time as Syrio stabs Arya in the gut which causes Ned to grow sad. Which could be an indication that Lyanna died fighting, not from childbirth.

Now whether that's just show plot or actual book canon is up for debate.

Rewatch the scene again. There's way too much noise for the shouting to be 11 people (7+3+L), and way too many sword clashes for 7 v 4.

[teej6]

This is one of the reasons why I think the show might just ditch R+L=J. They really haven't laid down the groundwork and it isn't necessary to the resolution of the show-plot.

We know how much you hope that R+L=J will be irrelevant but this is wishful thinking on your part.

[teej6]

Another easter egg on the show is the letters RL carved on the pillar behind Jon Snow in Ep 4 of season 1. And guess what Sam and Jon are discussing in this scene, the identity of Jon's mother of course. I remember posters talking about this scene a while ago although I never myself noticed it in the episode when I first saw it. And it just happens there's a recent WSJ article about this very scene. You can clearly see RL in the photo.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-86107

[markg171]

Rewatch the scene again. There's way too much noise for the shouting to be 11 people (7+3+L), and way too many sword clashes for 7 v 4.

Not really. The entire way that the fight would go down would ensure that their would be lots of sword clashes. You're going 2:1 and would constantly be attacking to keep the KG on the defensive, while the KG are constantly trying to parry and kill someone to even the odds. Hence, lots of sword clashes. It's not a slow type of fight.

And why would Ned think of any other battle while watching Arya try and fight someone who's clearly her superior? Ned says Lyanna's recklessness ("wolf blood") led her to an early death. Trying to fight a KG would certainly count, whereas Lyanna running off with Rhaegar didn't lead her to an early death.

[sj4iy]

Many of the mentions of Rhaegar and Lyanna (and anything relevant to the R+L=J theory) from the tv show. It's immediately obviously that nothing has been changed from the books. They are keeping the details of this exactly the same. If they were going to change it, I would fully expect them to not even bother with any of the Rhaegar/Lyanna backstory- but they obviously are working them in at every opportunity.

ROBERT: Did you have to bury her in a place like this? She should be on a hill somewhere with the sun and the clouds above her.

NED: She was my sister. This is where she belongs.

ROBERT: She belonged with me. [He touches Lyanna’s face.] In my dreams, I kill him every night.

NED: It’s done, Your Grace. The Targaryens are gone.

—

ROBERT: Oh, it's unspeakable to you ? What her father did to your family... That was unspeakable. What Rhaegar Targaryen did to your sister... the woman I loved. I'll kill every Targaryen I get my hands on.

NED: But you can't get your hands on this one, can you ?

—

DANY: I hit him. I hit the dragon.

JORAH: Your brother Rhaegar was the last dragon. Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake.

DANY: He is still the true King.

—

CERSEI: Well, seventeen years is quite a long time.

KING ROBERT: Yes, it is.

CERSEI: Yes, it tis. What was she like?

KING ROBERT: You've never asked about her, not once. Why not?

CERSEI: At first, just saying her name, even in private felt like I was breathing life back into her. I thought if I didn't talk about her, she'd just fade away for you. When I realized that wasn't going to happen, I refused to ask out of spite. I didn't want to give you the satisfaction of thinking I cared enough to ask. And eventually it became clear that my spite didn't mean anything to you, as far as I could tell, you actually enjoyed it.

KING ROBERT: So why now?

CERSEI: What harm could Lyanna Stark's ghost do to either of us that we haven't done to each other a hundred times over?

KING ROBERT: You want to know the horrible truth? I can't even remember what she looked like. I only know she was the one thing I ever wanted ... Someone took her away from me, and Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.

—

CERSEI: And when I finally saw him on our wedding day in the Sept of Baelor, lean and fierce and black-bearded, it was the happiest moment of my life. Then that night he crawled on top of me, stinking of wine and did what he did ... what little he could do ... and whispered in my ear, "Lyanna." Your sister was a corpse and I was a living girl and he loved her more than me.

—

BRAN: That's my grandfather Lord Rickard. He was burned alive by the Mad King Aerys. That's Lyanna, my father's sister. King Robert was supposed to marry her, but Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped her. Robert started a war to win her back. He killed Rhaegar, but she died anyway.

—

DANY: Do you disagree, Ser Barristan?

BARRISTAN: When your brother Rhaegar led his army into battle at the Trident, men died for him because they believed in him, because they loved him, not because they'd been bought at a slaver's auction. I fought beside the last dragon on that day, Your Grace. I bled beside him.

JORAH: Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, and Rhaegar died.

DANY: Did you know him well, Ser Barristan?

BARRISTAN: I did, Your Grace. Finest man I ever met.

DANY: I wish I had known him. But he was not the last dragon.

—

THOROS: House Clegane was built upon dead children. I saw them lay Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys before the Iron Throne.

HOUND: Do you take me for my brother? Is being born Clegane a crime?

BWB MAN: Murder is a crime.

HOUND: I never touched the Targaryen babes. I never saw them, never smelled them, never heard them bawling. You want to cut my throat, get on with it! But don't call me murderer and pretend that you're not.

—

JOFFREY: My father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar. He took the crown while you hid under Casterly Rock!

—

OBERYN: The last time I was in the capital was many years ago. Another wedding. My sister Elia and Rhaegar Targaryen, the Last Dragon. My sister loved him. She bore his children. Swaddled them, rocked them, fed them at her own breast. Elia wouldn't let the wet nurse touch them. And beautiful, noble Rhaegar Targaryen left her for another woman. That started a war and the war ended right here when your father's army took the city...

TYRION: I wasn't actually present.

OBERYN: ...and butchered those children. My nephew and niece. Carved them up and wrapped them in Lannister cloaks.

—

OBERYN: I am the brother of Elia Martell. Do you know why I have come all the way to this stinking shit-pile of a city? For you. I'm going to hear you confess before you die. You raped my sister. You murdered her. You killed her children.

[JonSnow4President]

Not really. The entire way that the fight would go down would ensure that their would be lots of sword clashes. You're going 2:1 and would constantly be attacking to keep the KG on the defensive, while the KG are constantly trying to parry and kill someone to even the odds. Hence, lots of sword clashes. It's not a slow type of fight.

And why would Ned think of any other battle while watching Arya try and fight someone who's clearly her superior? Ned says Lyanna's recklessness ("wolf blood") led her to an early death. Trying to fight a KG would certainly count, whereas Lyanna running off with Rhaegar didn't lead her to an early death.

If she died in childbirth, it sure as hell lead to an early death.

In that scene, there's a full on battle raging around. Even if you are accounting for 7 on 4 in full on battle, human's physically cannot move that fast. His daughter is training for war. Ned, as a warrior, has seen a lot of death. How in the hell is it strange for him to think of all the death he's seen, specifically when his daughter is training for war?

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

This is one of the reasons why I think the show might just ditch R+L=J. They really haven't laid down the groundwork and it isn't necessary to the resolution of the show-plot.

For that matter, it may not even be necessary for the resolution of the book plot.