Lady Stoneheart

[Trevelyan]

Pretty sure D&D have strongly suggested they aren't keen on Lady Stoneheart (saying something about her being a one-note character) and don't feel it would be worth Michelle Fairley's time for her to return to play the role.

When and where did they say that?

As far as I know, neither Benioff nor Weiss have ever said anything on how they feel about Stoneheart. The one time they were openly asked about her at Comic Con, they chose not to answer.

So far, all we really have is the Alex Graves interview, which was strictly about Stoneheart's absence from Season 4, he didn't say anything about Season 5. Also there is the Michelle Fairley interview, which doesn't have to mean anything. When asked about Stoneheart, Fairley has literally only two options available: avoiding the question altogether or denying a possible Stoneheart appearance in future seasons. Maybe in this particular interview, she chose the latter, and even so, her answer was still kinda ambiguous (the character is dead, she said).

[Dolorous Gabe]

When and where did they say that?

As far as I know, neither Benioff nor Weiss have ever said anything on how they feel about Stoneheart. The one time they were openly asked about her at Comic Con, they chose not to answer.

So far, all we really have is the Alex Graves interview, which was strictly about Stoneheart's absence from Season 4, he didn't say anything about Season 5. Also there is the Michelle Fairley interview, which doesn't have to mean anything. When asked about Stoneheart, Fairley has literally only two options available: avoiding the question altogether or denying a possible Stoneheart appearance in future seasons. Maybe in this particular interview, she chose the latter, and even so, her answer was still kinda ambiguous (the character is dead, she said).

I've watched loads of videos and read numerous transcripts of interviews with the cast and D&D. I wouldn't be able to say where I heard or read it.

I understand the desire to be hopeful for her appearance, but I've lost all hope that she will appear. I believe it is much more than a fool's hope to cling to the possibility of her being in the show now.

All reports suggest Jaime is headed for Dorne. If this is the case, what would be the point of showing Lady Stoneheart at all? If she and Brienne were to cross paths, what would happen?

If Michelle Fairley showed up on a GoT set, they wouldn't be able to keep it a secret.

Believe me, I would truly love to be proven wrong. I was severely disappointed at her omission from the end of The Children in Season 4.

[Manderstark]

I've watched loads of videos and read numerous transcripts of interviews with the cast and D&D. I wouldn't be able to say where I heard or read it.

It was an interview of Alex Graves, not D&D.

[larastone]

EW has no Intel to confirm anything, that magazine is a joke.

they also confirmed the Ironborn storyline and Bran are cut from Season 5. idk about other things, but Hibberd seems to be pretty close to D&D.

[Dolorous Gabe]

It was an interview of Alex Graves, not D&D.

Ah okay that may have been it.

Still think it's not going to happen. As I say, I do hope I'm wrong.

[Cas Stark]

Ah okay that may have been it.

Still think it's not going to happen. As I say, I do hope I'm wrong.

It was Alex Graves but he was relaying what were D&Ds reasons for no Stoneheart, which he agreed with, if I remember correctly. So, despite people clinging to the idea that this philosphical approach to the character is somehow changeable from season to season, his comments are very strong evidence that Stoneheart is cut, especially given that we see other characters are also cut.

[Sub_Zero94]

It was Alex Graves but he was relaying what were D&Ds reasons for no Stoneheart, which he agreed with, if I remember correctly. So, despite people clinging to the idea that this philosphical approach to the character is somehow changeable from season to season, his comments are very strong evidence that Stoneheart is cut, especially given that we see other characters are also cut.

Agreed.

Considering all the characters they're cutting and when they're not doing that, they're literally making up characters, who are hit and miss as far as them making any sense, or delivering anything of substance... they have no time for LS :dunce:

[Sub_Zero94]

It was Alex Graves but he was relaying what were D&Ds reasons for no Stoneheart, which he agreed with, if I remember correctly. So, despite people clinging to the idea that this philosphical approach to the character is somehow changeable from season to season, his comments are very strong evidence that Stoneheart is cut, especially given that we see other characters are also cut.

dp.

[Lord Lannister]

Yeah, this is a change I'm just fine with. The Stoneheart thing just ruined Catelyn as a character for me.

[AdmiralKyrd]

It was Alex Graves but he was relaying what were D&Ds reasons for no Stoneheart, which he agreed with, if I remember correctly. So, despite people clinging to the idea that this philosphical approach to the character is somehow changeable from season to season, his comments are very strong evidence that Stoneheart is cut, especially given that we see other characters are also cut.

Sandor: "Was"? She dead? She's not in the show?

Arya: Yes!

Sandor: How?

Arya: She was confirmed cut.

Sandor: Who by?

Arya: Alex Graves! That's why James Hibberd wrote...

Sandor: [incredulously] Alex Graves? The director who couldn't even understand how to film a consensual sex scene - Alex fucking Graves?

Arya: He was in on the production!

Sandor: Any boy whore with a brain would know not to trust three Alex Graves.

[TaenaOfMyr]

I think there's good reason to hold off on including the character until season 5. First off, from a timeline standpoint, it makes more sense to wait rather than have her appear for one scene, then vanish for a while, then return again. Having her appear for the first time when Brienne encounters her makes more sense within the show than having some random Frey who we never met before be the character that encounters her. That works much more in the book than it could in the show.

Second, I can certainly see the logic in them thinking that the finale of season 4 already has several big twists/events including Stannis's arrival at the wall, the Brienne/Sandor fight and Tyrion's escape and final encounter with Shae and Tywin. Rather than cheapen the big twist, they save it for season 5, a season where, at least based on what the source material is, there are hardly any big twist. Big twists have been come to be expected on this show, especially after those we got last season. The only other big twist you have for season 5 is Jon's 'death', which I would argue was a horrible decision and I hope it gets cut in the show.

They are not going to reveal she is coming back publicly, so interviews with Michelle Fairley are irrelevant.

All that said, I view the odds of this happening at 25% at best. No way will I get myself as worked up for this as I was before the finale last season. Can't take that disappointment again!

[alcasinoroyale]

I agree with Taena of Myr and why haven't you been announced either? Anyway, the reveal of Lady Stoneheart is almost the same as the reveal of FAegon, they aren't going to say that Lady Stoneheart will be in season 5 because that's a spoiler in itself. If they want unsullied to be surprised, they would keep it a secret instead of publicly addressing it all over the internet.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I agree with Taena of Myr and why haven't you been announced either? Anyway, the reveal of Lady Stoneheart is almost the same as the reveal of FAegon, they aren't going to say that Lady Stoneheart will be in season 5 because that's a spoiler in itself. If they want unsullied to be surprised, they would keep it a secret instead of publicly addressing it all over the internet.

But there's a big difference between LS and FAegon. LS, or UnCat, was introduced already in the show as Cat. Having her die in season 3 then getting nothing until season 5 where she suddenly pops again as an undead would be very hard to believe from a plot standpoint. Too much time has passed for her to "return". While it makes sense to have her around when her story lin is in full swing, there should have been whispers, rumors and rumblings about Freys being found hung and the mysterious woman they say is behind it. That would have been enough to make sense of her appearance. But to have nothing about Cat or LS or the Freys for so long and then, *poof* "I'm back and I'm hanging Freys!" is poor story telling. I don't see this character returning at this stage of the series especially when it looks like her actions can be given to other characters. They have already done that with Arianne and will probably do that with the Iron Born and Aegon. It really looks like LS window is closed and her actions will probably go to someone else, if they're included at all.

[Trevelyan]

I agree, Season 4 would have been the best opportunity to introduce Lady Stoneheart or at least to allude to the BwB, so her possible introduction in Season 5 doesn't come out of nowhere.

I still think it could work though, if they set it up right. Have a scene early on (maybe the closing or opening scene of the first episode of S5), where they re-establish the Brotherhood, tell us about Frey being hanged in the riverlands, something like that. And then, later in the season, they could introduce Lady Stoneheart and it still might work. I don't think the moment is gone, not yet, there is still a way to make it work. De facto only 11 episodes have passed since Cat's death.

As soon as Season 5 is halfway through and we still haven't heard anything about dead Freys, the Brotherhood or a mysterious, hooded woman, that's when all hope is lost, I think.

[Dolorous Gabe]

But there's a big difference between LS and FAegon. LS, or UnCat, was introduced already in the show as Cat. Having her die in season 3 then getting nothing until season 5 where she suddenly pops again as an undead would be very hard to believe from a plot standpoint. Too much time has passed for her to "return". While it makes sense to have her around when her story lin is in full swing, there should have been whispers, rumors and rumblings about Freys being found hung and the mysterious woman they say is behind it. That would have been enough to make sense of her appearance. But to have nothing about Cat or LS or the Freys for so long and then, *poof* "I'm back and I'm hanging Freys!" is poor story telling. I don't see this character returning at this stage of the series especially when it looks like her actions can be given to other characters. They have already done that with Arianne and will probably do that with the Iron Born and Aegon. It really looks like LS window is closed and her actions will probably go to someone else, if they're included at all.

I completely agree, especially with the bolded sections.

[AdmiralKyrd]

I completely agree, especially with the bolded sections.

I'll disagree on the premise that the Freys were nowhere to be found in Season 4, except for Walda's brief appearance. Given that Season 5 should feature lots of Northern plotline, the aftermath of the Red Wedding, and Freys in Winterfell, its a much better time to do LSH than just having her appear in one scene with nothing else to support it.

[jaimereborn]

I'll disagree on the premise that the Freys were nowhere to be found in Season 4, except for Walda's brief appearance. Given that Season 5 should feature lots of Northern plotline, the aftermath of the Red Wedding, and Freys in Winterfell, its a much better time to do LSH than just having her appear in one scene with nothing else to support it.

Walder Frey isn't due to return this season though, and with Jaime being sent to Dorne, it seems we're not getting any Freys/Riverlands drama this season either

[Dolorous Gabe]

I'll disagree on the premise that the Freys were nowhere to be found in Season 4, except for Walda's brief appearance. Given that Season 5 should feature lots of Northern plotline, the aftermath of the Red Wedding, and Freys in Winterfell, its a much better time to do LSH than just having her appear in one scene with nothing else to support it.

We're not saying she should have appeared already. We're saying that if she is to appear at any moment in the whole series, there should have been some vague hint to suggest it. It could have been a throwaway line someone says telling of strange reports of disappearing Freys.

All signs point to no LSh. The only positive sign we had was Lena Headey trolling us with that picture of stones in a heart shape.

If Michelle Fairley had been on set, it would have been leaked. It's a fair point to say that LSh has only been in a couple of chapters in the books so they wouldn't bring her back until she is more involved in the story. I would say the only hope left for LSh in the show is that we get some hints that Freys are going missing in the Riverlands in Season 5, in which case they may be aiming to bring her into Season 6. I remain highly doubtful based on pretty much everything I've read and heard.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I'll disagree on the premise that the Freys were nowhere to be found in Season 4, except for Walda's brief appearance. Given that Season 5 should feature lots of Northern plotline, the aftermath of the Red Wedding, and Freys in Winterfell, its a much better time to do LSH than just having her appear in one scene with nothing else to support it.

But that's the point I was making. There was absolutely no mention of the Freys last season even though that was the time when it made sense to discuss how they were killed mysteriously. Not mentioning them or LS for an entire season only to start now, or even later in season 6 is completely unrealistic unless they will be killed by someone other than LS. There's no logical way to introduce UnCat now given how the show is set up unless they are planning a flashback to when she is fished out of the river and that is probably not going to happen. Other than that, any other sort of "introduction" to LS would seem too much like it was coming "from nowhere" and even a flashback would feel forced at this point since there haven't been any on the show so far and Cersei's is literally going back decades to when she's a little girl. This had to be set up earlier even if it wouldn't be acted on until later. Unfortunately that doesn't make for smart TV but can work in a book with various POVs. I think D&D recognized this which is why she's been MIA. Expecting someone to mention her in episode 2 & 3 then reveal her to someone in episode 6 would be very hard to explain to the average viewer, especially given the fact that Cat is DEAD as far as everyone knows. And not Jon dead. Ned dead. She can't just be back, even under another name, a season and a half later. Hell, it would have been just as confusing to the average reader if it had been handled that way in the books.

[Cas Stark]

There might be reason to hope if Walder Frey/any named Freys/Blackfish/Dondarin/BWB were slated to be in Season 5. But, as far as I know, they aren't. That means no riverlands plotline.

While it's theoretically possible they would bring LSH back in Season 6, considering the rest of the cuts they've made, and how long it would have been, it seems very, very unlikely.

It seems more likely that she's cut and that they will simply cut or change how the BWB hostage situation plays out with regard to Jamie and Brienne. And since we don't know what LSH does, if anything after that situation, it may have been a fairly easy decision to cut her, since we already know from Graves that they thought it was a better end for Cat to just die.