Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Do you have textual evidence for this?About the servants: lords and ladies do not have servants, especially kings and queens. Which is why so many of them die in childbirth, the people who 'serve' them are not taken on because they are capable but because they have a certain position. Like Robert, his servants were Lannister family members of noble birth, Margaery has her cousins, Tyrion has Podrick. Lyanna might work with servants because she is not important enough, but not Rhaegar surely?All right another guess at who might be there: Ashara?With servants, we usually mean people did the laundry at ToJ (don't see the KG doing such), or a midwife (for the upcoming birth). Highborn women, when giving birth, are not alone. They will be assisted, by multiple servants and (a) maester(s). Lyanna most likely did not have a maester present (and if she did, possibly the maester of Starfall), so would have needed at least someone to assist her at giving birth. It's not like she wouldn't have been able to give birth all alone while the three KG were outside, but if Rhaegar believed this child to have any potential importance to the future, it wouldn't be strange if he arranged for Lyanna to have some assistance, of whatever kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The only way I see Jon and Aegon "interacting" is through JonCon if the latter lives long enough and ends up going north.(hm. Would JonCon be able to tell that Jon is Rhaegar's son? Could he possibly "see" Rhaegar in him....)Val's aversion to Shireen's greyscale could easily be a set up for Val's aversion to Jon Conn's greyscale. This shouted at me that Val and Jon Conn would be around each other at some point in the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Back a couple of threads ago when discussing the fact that Dany's vision of the Trident isn't factual, I found another piece to support it: “My queen,” the big man said slowly, “all you say is true. But Rhaegar lost on the Trident. He lost the battle, he lost the war, he lost the kingdom, and he lost his life. His blood swirled downriver with the rubies from his breastplate, and Robert the Usurper rode over his corpse to steal the iron Throne. Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.” I seem to recall a couple of posters saying that in their head canon Rhaegar unhorsed Robert and then dismounted to fulfill the "fought honourably" portion of Jorah's famous line, but that directly contradicts Jorah saying that Robert was still mounted and rode over Rhaegar's corpse. So Robert definitely killed Rhaegar while he was still mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Back a couple of threads ago when discussing the fact that Dany's vision of the Trident isn't factual, I found another piece to support it: I seem to recall a couple of posters saying that in their head canon Rhaegar unhorsed Robert and then dismounted to fulfill the "fought honourably" portion of Jorah's famous line, but that directly contradicts Jorah saying that Robert was still mounted and rode over Rhaegar's corpse. So Robert definitely killed Rhaegar while he was still mounted. I think Jorah means metaphorically robert rode him over. I was always under the impression that they fought hand to hand and Robert crushed his breast plate with his war hammer, could you even do that from a horse? I guess technically you could but a war hammer does not seem like a good weapon to use from horseback.....I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Val's aversion to Shireen's greyscale could easily be a set up for Val's aversion to Jon Conn's greyscale. This shouted at me that Val and Jon Conn would be around each other at some point in the narrative. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Shiny!!! I don't want you scare you all, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGxTw_JTC8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Val's aversion to Shireen's greyscale could easily be a set up for Val's aversion to Jon Conn's greyscale. This shouted at me that Val and Jon Conn would be around each other at some point in the narrative. *avatar idea* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Arthur Dayne is dead because of these reasons:1. Ned took Jon. No KG described as "the best ever" would have allowed that while he still lived.2. Arthur Dayne would never willingly give up his sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Shiny!!!I don't want you scare you all, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGxTw_JTC8He's obviously not from Braavos! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think Jorah means metaphorically robert rode him over. I was always under the impression that they fought hand to hand and Robert crushed his breast plate with his war hammer, could you even do that from a horse? I guess technically you could but a war hammer does not seem like a good weapon to use from horseback.....I could be wrong though. They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert’s hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor. Robert also hit him with the spiked side of his hammer, not the flat side Robert reached for the flagon and refilled his cup. “You see what she does to me, Ned.” The king seated himself, cradling his wine cup. “My loving wife. The mother of my children.” The rage was gone from him now; in his eyes Ned saw something sad and scared. “I should not have hit her. That was not... that was not kingly.” He stared down at his hands, as if he did not quite know what they were. “I was always strong... no one could stand before me, no one. How do you fight someone if you can’t hit them?” Confused, the king shook his head. “Rhaegar... Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her.” The king drained his cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think Jorah means metaphorically robert rode him over. I was always under the impression that they fought hand to hand and Robert crushed his breast plate with his war hammer, could you even do that from a horse? I guess technically you could but a war hammer does not seem like a good weapon to use from horseback.....I could be wrong though. Don't indulge the troll, Suzanna. There's no use talking to someone who won't hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Don't indulge the troll, Suzanna. There's no use talking to someone who won't hear. Yes, the troll is the one using multiple first hand historical accounts of the Trident, instead of the person using a vision that is full of errors and directly contradicts the known historical accounts, from a girl who didn't even exist yet when the fight went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Shiny!!!I don't want you scare you all, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGxTw_JTC8 I don't want to scare myself, but when I texted my friend Rich, "RHAEGAR" autopopulated. He texted me back WTF? :shocked: I fear its getting out of control. :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Back a couple of threads ago when discussing the fact that Dany's vision of the Trident isn't factual, I found another piece to support it: I seem to recall a couple of posters saying that in their head canon Rhaegar unhorsed Robert and then dismounted to fulfill the "fought honourably" portion of Jorah's famous line, but that directly contradicts Jorah saying that Robert was still mounted and rode over Rhaegar's corpse. So Robert definitely killed Rhaegar while he was still mounted. It doesn't say that he was on his horse when he killed Rhaegar...Robert could have killed Rhaegar...then got back onto his horse, then ride over him. Just thought I would point out that someone can get back on a horse. It has been done before. And I admit, I first thought the fight was when they were on foot...but the quotes do imply the fight via horseback...or at least started on foot. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 He's obviously not from Braavos! :P No, he's from the Iron Islands, obviously. "Finger Dance", anyone? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 No, he's from the Iron Islands, obviously. "Finger Dance", anyone? :D They've got lemons on the Iron Islands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 They've got lemons on the Iron Islands? They have lemons...not lemon trees! (helps with the scurvy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It doesn't say that he was on his horse when he killed Rhaegar...Robert could have killed Rhaegar...then got back onto his horse, then ride over him. Just thought I would point out that someone can get back on a horse. It has been done before. And I admit, I first thought the fight was when they were on foot...but the quotes do imply the fight via horseback...or at least started on foot. :dunno: It doesn't even matter. In in the context of RLJ, it doesn't matter if they started on horseback and ended on foot, if they started on foot and ended on horseback, if they were never on horseback or never on foot. The vision is trying to convey something--whether it's historically accurate is beside the point. The vision is trying to show that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. It comes soon after the room where Rhaegar says "there must be one more" and just before the blue rose in a chink of ice. And the idea that it is contradicting the historical record because Dany didn't exist yet is mindbogglingly silly. It's magic. MAGIC. In GRRM's world magic can be used to see past, present, future. All of which...DANY SEES in the HotU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 They've got lemons on the Iron Islands? An Ironborn immigrant into Dorne, mayhaps? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It doesn't even matter. In in the context of RLJ, it doesn't matter if they started on horseback and ended on foot, if they started on foot and ended on horseback, if they were never on horseback or never on foot. The vision is trying to convey something--whether it's historically accurate is beside the point. The vision is trying to show that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. It comes soon after the room where Rhaegar says "there must be one more" and just before the blue rose in a chink of ice. And the idea that it is contradicting the historical record because Dany didn't exist yet is mindbogglingly silly. It's magic. MAGIC. In GRRM's world magic can be used to see past, present, future. All of which...DANY SEES in the HotU. I'm with you now...I didn't scroll back through all the previous pages...like I probably should have. (it's called lazy! :p) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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