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Lost Melnibonean

Wow, I never noticed that... v.10

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In the other thread was mentioned that Cersei doesn't pay her debts. Tyrion WANTS to pay his debts. Jaime is already paying his debts.

It is just so below Cersei to pay those who are beneath her! Duh! Just ask her!

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"King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land."



Looking more closely at Targaryen history, I've found that's not accurate. Not every Targaryen is either great or mad. Some are actually pretty middle-of-the-road. Do others tend to go to extremes? Absolutely. But even then its not strictly one thing or the other. Just some examples:


  • Aenys was just incompetent
  • Maegor was incredibly cruel, but doesn't appear to have had a mental condition; he was just that much of an asshole.
  • All Jaehaerys and Alysanne's kids seem pretty normal except "simpleminded but sweet" Gael
  • Viserys I was a chill guy content to party and dote on his kids. He had a good reign, but didn't do much himself to make it that way.
  • Aegon II was a gluttonous but otherwise pretty normal
  • Daeron was foolhardy and failed his mission, so he doesn't count as great
  • Daena was rebellious, Rhaena was pious, Elaena was clever, but again, pretty normal women.
  • Aegon IV has was totally self-indulgent and had zero self-control, but he wasn't mad.
  • Naerys was pious, fragile and long-suffering
  • Aerys I was a very introverted bookworm
  • Maekar was actually known for being unremarkable (at least compared to his brothers)
  • Jaehaerys was weak though he tried his best. Ironically he did not fit his own quote.

Edit: I meant Aenys, as in the son of Aegon I


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The battle was followed by the day's first folly, a tilt between a pair of jousting dwarfs, presented by one of the Yunkish lords that Hizdahr had invited to the games. One rode a hound, the other a sow. Their wooden armor had been freshly painted, so one bore the stag of the usurper Robert Baratheon, the other the golden lion of House Lannister. That was for her sake, plainly. Their antics soon had Belwas snorting laughter, though Dany's smile was faint and forced. When the dwarf in red tumbled from the saddle and began to chase his sow across the sands, whilst the dwarf on the dog galloped after him, whapping at his buttocks with a wooden sword, she said, "This is sweet and silly, but "

"Be patient, my sweet," said Hizdahr. "They are about to loose the lions."

Daenerys IX, Dance

Wow, I never noticed that Tyrion was wearing his rightful colors.

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I just noticed/made the lack of connection this last week: In ACOK, when Meera and Jojen arrive during the feast at Winterfell, Bran mentions remembering his father writing letters to Howland Reed. Later, Meera tells Bran that Greywater Watch does not have a Maester because no ravens can find their home on account of it moving around.

So how the hell did Ned send his letters?

(I also completely missed the whole Lysa and Petyr killed Jon Arryn on my first several times through the books. First time through, I was reading too quickly because I simply had to finish the book, and then on re-reads, I guess I simply did not care about the Lysa/Petyr situation to pay closer attention. Lysa's death has been the only "thank the old gods and the new that character is finally dead" moment I have had. I could not stand her from the get go. I finally figured it out when taking a trivia quiz and I could not get the "who killed Jon Arryn?" question correct, and when the answer was revealed, my jaw dropped several times and then I immediately sat down and read that chapter syllable by painstaking syllable while berating myself for missing that huge revelation.)

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I noticed that the way Catelyn describes the Weirwood or Heart Tree in Winterfell's God's Wood when she goes there to tell Ned about Jon Arryn's death is very much the same way several of the Starks are described.



She says it has a long and melancholy face. ( Not a direct quote, but I don't have a GoT here with me & couldn't find it in the Wiki)..........



Eddard Stark is described as having a long face, dark hair & grey eyes.



Rickard (His Father) Is described as having a long, stern face.



Jon Snow is described as having a long, solemn & guarded face with grey eyes so dark they look almost black.



Arya Stark is described as having a long face, looking like Lyanna & Jon, more Stark than Tully. "Arya Horseface."



I wonder if all the faces on the Weirwoods resemble the Lords & Ladies of the Houses where they are.


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I just noticed/made the lack of connection this last week: In ACOK, when Meera and Jojen arrive during the feast at Winterfell, Bran mentions remembering his father writing letters to Howland Reed. Later, Meera tells Bran that Greywater Watch does not have a Maester because no ravens can find their home on account of it moving around.

So how the hell did Ned send his letters?

(I also completely missed the whole Lysa and Petyr killed Jon Arryn on my first several times through the books. First time through, I was reading too quickly because I simply had to finish the book, and then on re-reads, I guess I simply did not care about the Lysa/Petyr situation to pay closer attention. Lysa's death has been the only "thank the old gods and the new that character is finally dead" moment I have had. I could not stand her from the get go. I finally figured it out when taking a trivia quiz and I could not get the "who killed Jon Arryn?" question correct, and when the answer was revealed, my jaw dropped several times and then I immediately sat down and read that chapter syllable by painstaking syllable while berating myself for missing that huge revelation.)

He probably sent a messenger. He & Howland Reed were good friends, I'm sure Ned and he knew how to reach each other should the need arise.

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Septon Cellador's (at Castle Black) name is a pun on Cellar Door (like at wineries, since he is always drunk).


And Falyse Stokeworth's name is a pun on Fleece, since fleece is wool, and the sigil of House Stokeworth is a sheep.







"King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land."



Looking more closely at Targaryen history, I've found that's not accurate. Not every Targaryen is either great or mad. Some are actually pretty middle-of-the-road. Do others tend to go to extremes? Absolutely. But even then its not strictly one thing or the other. Just some examples:


  • Aerys was just incompetent
  • Maegor was incredibly cruel, but doesn't appear to have had a mental condition; he was just that much of an asshole.
  • All Jaehaerys and Alysanne's kids seem pretty normal expect "simpleminded but sweet" Gael
  • Viserys I was a chill guy content to party and dote on his kids. He had a good reign, but didn't do much himself to make it that way.
  • Aegon II was a gluttonous but otherwise pretty normal
  • Daeron was foolhardy and failed his mission, so he doesn't count as great
  • Daena was rebellious, Rhaena was pious, Elaena was clever, but again, pretty normal women.
  • Aegon IV has was totally self-indulgent and had zero self-control, but he wasn't mad.
  • Naerys was pious, fragile and long-suffering
  • Aerys I was a very introverted bookworm
  • Maekar was actually known for being unremarkable (at least compared to his brothers)
  • Jaehaerys was weak though he tried his best. Ironically he did not fit his own quote.




People always look to the worst. Maegor was Cruel, so he'd probably count as one of the "mad" ones. Daeron was great in the eyes of many, while Baelor was way mad.



Baelon, Baelor Breakspear, Jaehaerys, Alysanne, Rhaenys (Princess that Never Was), Aemon (Dragonknight) and Elaena are other potential greats. Egg too, though he might be both depending on who you ask.



And for mad ones you can have Daemon, Aemond One Eye, Aegon 2 and Rhaenyra (both fucking hell bent on destroying the other, and had signs of madness both similar to Maegor), Mad Aerys, simple (mentally disabled) Gael and Jaehaera, the Monkey Prince (Aelor iirc?) and Aerion are all other mad ones. Mad doesn't mean madness, but cruelty, vanity, excess piety etc.


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I just noticed/made the lack of connection this last week: In ACOK, when Meera and Jojen arrive during the feast at Winterfell, Bran mentions remembering his father writing letters to Howland Reed. Later, Meera tells Bran that Greywater Watch does not have a Maester because no ravens can find their home on account of it moving around.

So how the hell did Ned send his letters?

(I also completely missed the whole Lysa and Petyr killed Jon Arryn on my first several times through the books. First time through, I was reading too quickly because I simply had to finish the book, and then on re-reads, I guess I simply did not care about the Lysa/Petyr situation to pay closer attention. Lysa's death has been the only "thank the old gods and the new that character is finally dead" moment I have had. I could not stand her from the get go. I finally figured it out when taking a trivia quiz and I could not get the "who killed Jon Arryn?" question correct, and when the answer was revealed, my jaw dropped several times and then I immediately sat down and read that chapter syllable by painstaking syllable while berating myself for missing that huge revelation.)

greenmail over the weirnet

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Both Clegane brothers are associate with innocent people wrapped in bloody cloaks during an attack on King's Landing. In Gregor's case, he was attacking the city and the bloody cloaks are the result of the violent deaths of innocent people (Elia, Aegon, Rhaenys). In Sandor's case, he was protecting the city and the bloody cloak is a show of protection/affection toward the innocent person (Sansa).


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Septon Cellador's (at Castle Black) name is a pun on Cellar Door (like at wineries, since he is always drunk).

And Falyse Stokeworth's name is a pun on Fleece, since fleece is wool, and the sigil of House Stokeworth is a sheep.

People always look to the worst. Maegor was Cruel, so he'd probably count as one of the "mad" ones. Daeron was great in the eyes of many, while Baelor was way mad.

Baelon, Baelor Breakspear, Jaehaerys, Alysanne, Rhaenys (Princess that Never Was), Aemon (Dragonknight) and Elaena are other potential greats. Egg too, though he might be both depending on who you ask.

And for mad ones you can have Daemon, Aemond One Eye, Aegon 2 and Rhaenyra (both fucking hell bent on destroying the other, and had signs of madness both similar to Maegor), Mad Aerys, simple (mentally disabled) Gael and Jaehaera, the Monkey Prince (Aelor iirc?) and Aerion are all other mad ones. Mad doesn't mean madness, but cruelty, vanity, excess piety etc.

No, Maegor, Daemon, Aemond, Aegon II don't count as mad because they was cruel. Being a bad person =/= being mental ill. Rhaenyra, I believe, may have had her sanity compromised toward the end of her life. Cruelty, vanity and excess piety may be symptoms of madness, but not madness itself and possessing those qualities is not a clear sign of mental illness. Aerys II, Gael, Jaehaera, Rhaegel, Vaella and Aerion do show signs of genuine mental illness/disability (I'm not sure about Aelor).

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Arya mistook Sandor for a knight during Sandor's first few days at Winterfell



Joffrey said nothing, but a man strange to Arya, a tall knight with black hair and burn scars on his face, pushed forward in front of the prince. “This is your prince. Who are you to tell him he may not have an edge on his sword, ser?

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No, Maegor, Daemon, Aemond, Aegon II don't count as mad because they was cruel. Being a bad person =/= being mental ill. Rhaenyra, I believe, may have had her sanity compromised toward the end of her life. Cruelty, vanity and excess piety may be symptoms of madness, but not madness itself and possessing those qualities is not a clear sign of mental illness. Aerys II, Gael, Jaehaera, Rhaegel, Vaella and Aerion do show signs of genuine mental illness/disability (I'm not sure about Aelor).

I interpreted the quote as madness being, not insanity, but as a bad (evil?) ruler, or a different one. Same as how greatness isn't meaning greatness in battle either.

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The Great Pyramid of Meereen, is nearly twice as tall as the tallest pyramid in the real world.

Daenerys got pretty freaky just before Drogon showed up at Daznaks Pit. As soon as the boar gutted Barsena, Daenerys became overwhelmed by the smell, the heat, the flies, and the crowd, and she took off her clothes! Nobody seemed all that concerned that she was getting naked, which was odd since Drogon hadnt actually shown up yet and Belwas was only at that moment getting queasy. She asked to leave, but Hizdahr wanted her to stay. Did she call Drogon, or did Drogon call her?

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